Export only and DFS whiskey question

[Vange]

Maybe it's just me, but I hate not being able to get something I want when it comes to spirits. Why do some spirits get sold at DFS or outside of the US, esopecially if it's a bourbon and made in the US. Also, not being abe to get FR outside of kentucky or japan is bizarre to me. Wouldn't a company WANT to make it readily available? Also, in the case of EW 23, why is it not available in the US? I could just be too simple minded, but it can be frustrating trying to track down some of these export only or DFS bourbons. I resort to giving all my friends lists of things to get when they go on vacations!

[kbuzbee]

So maybe (just maybe) it's a combination of

1. We can't make enough of a particular something to be sold everywhere. I know Buffalo Trace suffers from this (and we in Ohio suffer because they can't)

2. Having things that not everyone can get creates a mystique about them.

Now combine these two things. You have a Bourbon that is good. It's very good. Is it great? Maybe. How much can you sell it for? What does it compete against?? Bookers?? You can sell it for $50. But Bookers is established and it's everywhere. You are not established and you can only be in 3 states (due to volume of production).

BUT.... You could sell it to an upscale market (duty free means international travel means money, Japan means higher cost of living) means: You may be able to charge more and the product gains a 'You can't find that anywhere', mystique. So you sell all you can produce and you make 30% more than you would be able to get if you sold it to Indiana, Tenn and Kentucky.

Maybe...

Ken

[Vange]

I guess that's pretty much was I was thinking, but wish I had more sources for getting these spirits!

[doubleblank]

First you have to differentiate the two markets. DFS is about selling upscale items to the well heeled traveler. Lots of "style" and "image" ...... perfumes, watches, candies and, of course, liquors. The WT products you see there were not created for the bourbon enthusiast.....but by the marketing depts at DFS and WT. And they're not that expensive (or special) but they usually come in great packaging.

On the other hand, the foreign markets have for many years asked for, and received, unique and special products developed for the enthusiast. Many were developed at the request of their foreign distributor. IOW, the distillers were asked ..."If you can make me an 18yo rye in a neat bottle, I'll order X cases and can sell it for $100." SO the distillers said "Heck yeah"......no retailers in the US were asking for these high priced unique products. They were willing to pay premium prices when domestically, $50 WT 12yo collected dust at your local store. Now the domestic market has improved somewhat, but many of these products can't be made in even medium sized quantities......so they sell them at premium prices overseas.....those same foreign markets that have supported them and helped them develop these things in the first place. But on balance, we have a far better selection at far better prices right here. Yeah.....I'd like to be able to buy barrel proof Blanton's without traveling to London.....but it's $100 minimum over there.

FYI....if you want the EW 23yo.....HH sells it at the visitor center....for $350 as I recall.

Randy

[Hedmans Brorsa]

I remember when we were kids we always fretted about the Japan-only exclusive pressings of records with extra tracks, gatefold sleeves, etc that weren´t part of the original European pressings.

Well, at least there were one or two specialist shops in Stockholm who imported the stuff back so you could get it if you were a completist and were prepared to pay the exorbitant prices charged for these items.

My question is then, why aren´t there any shops like these for imported whiskey in the US? Here in Europe we can get many of these Japan-only bottlings like Maker´s black, Four Roses super premium, EW 23 yo etc if we are willing to dig deep into the purse.

What do the European liquor stores have that their American counterparts do not have?

[AVB]

I can get it around the $190-200 area if you really want one.

FYI....if you want the EW 23yo.....HH sells it at the visitor center....for $350 as I recall.

Randy

[barturtle]

What do the European liquor stores have that their American counterparts do not have?

A government that wasnt't influenced by a puritanical founding society and a religious "right" that still influences great control over the actions of the government.

But, really, I'll guess that it has something to do with labeling laws and such. The bottles that go overseas probably don't meet the labeling requirements for sale in the US. and it's most likely illegal to relabel them.

Also the 500ml and 700ml are not standard sizes for liquor and therefore may not be sold in the US if bottled in the US or imported after 12-31-1979

[CrispyCritter]

Conversely, there are Scotches that are generally not found in the UK market - and I suppose there are Cognacs and Armagnacs that won't be found on the shelf in France.

I've even seen bottles of potcheen (think Irish moonshine) in Chicago, with "FOR EXPORT ONLY" in big bold letters on the label. I passed up on it, though...

This also makes me wonder - have any of the UK independent bottlers, like Cadenhead's, Murray McDavid, etc., ever bottled a bourbon?

[AVB]

Cadenhead has done both a 5 and 13 year old bourbon botteling. The 5 was mediocre at best but the 13 (131.8 proof) was really pretty good.

Edit to add that these were Heaven Hill casks.

[Hedmans Brorsa]

Also the 500ml and 700ml are not standard sizes for liquor and therefore may not be sold in the US if bottled in the US or imported after 12-31-1979

Yes, but I´ve had serveral of these Japan-only bottlings and they have all been 750 ml just like in the US. 700 ml is the European standard.

As for independent bottlings : there have also been bottlings of Bourbon from Buffalo Trace although I can´t remember which company that did it.

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

Hi Evangelos,

My some of my posts probably exacerbate your feelings. Just remember that it works both ways, Van Winkle products are very hard for me to come by, I pay higher prices for what you guys think of as 'great bang for the buck' bourbons, Old Forester, Old Grand Dad in their various ages and proofs come to mind. And many things that you guys back home think of as widely available I have never seen at all. All the Weller expressions are known to me only by hearsay. I've never seen a Rock Hill Farms. And where are all the 1.75 ml bottles? (I have seen a few, but only Jim Beam White, JD, and Early Times. They aren't cheaper, either. If that is what I want it is cheaper to wait till the 750 mls are on sale.)

Ed

[barturtle]

Another thought. Importing a bottle of Wild Turkey and selling it as Wild Turkey would probably be illegal. They would kill you in court. This is why they took the age statement off of the WT 101 here, so people wouldn't buy them here cheap and take them to Japan and sell them for the marked up Japanese prices.

Europe has a big problem with these "grey market" imports. Cars are sold all over the place that aren't supposed to be sold in one country or another.

[Hedmans Brorsa]

Importing a bottle of Wild Turkey and selling it as Wild Turkey would probably be illegal. They would kill you in court.

I believe you but I still don´t understand why. What stops a US liquor store from importing, for instance, a couple of bottles of Maker´s Mark black seal and selling it for a high price to connoiseurs or collectors?

Whether the European shops imports from Japan is a breach of law, I do not know. All I know is that many of them proudly display their goods on the Internet and I have never heard of anyone being persecuted because of this.

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

WT 8 yo 101 isn't that expensive here, at least in Sapporo. I usually buy it at just over 2,000 yen sometimes under that. At recent exchange rates that places it well under US $ 20 for a 750 ml.

Ed

[barturtle]

What stops a US liquor store from importing, for instance, a couple of bottles of Maker´s Mark black seal and selling it for a high price to connoiseurs or collectors?

I have a couple thoughts, though someone with more of a legal background might say I'm dead wrong.

1-the importer has to own or have the right to use the trademark.

2-if I understand the 3 tier system correctly the importer and the retailer have to be seperate entities. If I remember correctly, it's not just seperate on paper but different owners as well.

Anybody got a law degree and know anything about import export regs?