12 yr Turkeys

[scratchline]

Yesterday afternoon, Virus of Life and I got together for a Wild Turkey tasting down in Tustin, CA. It was a hard and serious job, but somebody had to do it and we gave it our best. We tried just about all the regularly available Turkey products (KS excepted) and a couple of hard-to-find models including the 86.8 proof and the 12 yr.

One of our most interesting discoveries was the difference in color of the two versions of the WT 12 that we sampled. The gold foil was just plain redder. The color was deeper and richer than the split label. Now why would this be? The gold foil was from around '88 and the split from '96. We discussed the possibility that the quality of the barrel wood or the char was different. Or is it likely that the older bottle held older whiskey? If that's the case, why did we find the gold foil color to be even darker than the Tribute?

Any thoughts?

BTW, it was a terrific tasting and a fine time was had by all. Christian was a tremendous host.

-Mike

[Pete]

I would be interested in hearing your impressions of each bottle, and which one was your favorite!

Pete

[Virus_Of_Life]

Mike, it was a good time for sure. Many thanks for sharing your great finds with me!

Very intriguing was the color of the Gold Foil 12 year, the only thing I could possibly come up with was a 'better' or more dense quality of wood that may have been used in those earlier years (barrels), even though we aren't talking that much earlier. This could explain also why the Tribute, which should be older whiskey, also wasn't as red and dark as the gold foil. I'd really love to hear if anyone else has any ideas on this and if anyone else has noticed this? Dougdog?

The best Pete? Well I'll never say one is the best, but I will say both the 86.8 and the 8 year were considerably more balanced, if you would, than the current 101 and I enjoyed them quite a lot. This was my first taste of the 86.8 and I was very pleasantly surprised! Also I think I can safely say, and Mike would probably agree with me, that the RR101 was the least favored - quite frankly didn't seem to belong in the lineup with the rest. Honestly the 12s are hard to beat, I couldn't really notice any difference on the palate between the two, but in the nose the gold foil stood out and had more depth of aromas...

Yes a tough job, and I'd hate to have to do this everyday, but look forward to next time! :grin:

I forgot to bring the pictures with me to the office so I'll post those later this evening or tomorrow.

.......... OK I added a pic of the entire lineup from last night and am trying to get a picture that shows the REDDER gold foil, but nothing seems to be coming out well. I am going to try a bit longer and see what I can come up with.

[ProofPositive]

Also I think I can safely say, and Mike would probably agree with me, that the RR101 was the least favored - quite frankly didn't seem to belong in the lineup with the rest.

A little surprised to hear......but, that is what makes bourbon so very interesting - no 2 palates are exactly alike which makes everyone's taste reactions different. IMHO, RR101 is just a cut above any current product but a rung down the ladder of course from either 12Y0 product. Now, the older 101 - the true 8YO, is on par with RR101.....just my opinions though.

I would be interested to know how KS and Tribute would stand up in another round with those you just tasted. I realize they are single barrel products and the comparison would thus be somewhat "tainted" by their introduction by changing the playing field.

All in all though, I envy you guys! What a great time it must have been. Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts and results!

Wayne

[Virus_Of_Life]

OK here is an attempt to illustrate what Mike and I talked about. It is really hard to show the different color in a picture for a amatuer picture taker like myself, but I think in these few pics it is fairly apparent that the 12 year gold foil flanked by a 12 year split label on each side is much deeper and darker in it's color. What is really difficult to tell from the picture is just how much more red that deep color is... :eek:

Anyway, the more I think about this the more I have to believe it is either a difference in the wood the barrel is made from or a difference in the recipe, or both. I lean toward thought on the wood because like we said the supposed 3 year older Tribute is lighter and about the same color as the 12 year split label...

Appreciate any thoughts.:stickpoke:

Tribute is small batch, so I don't think there'd be any variance bottle to bottle, by the way Happy Birthday Wayne!!!! :fish2:

[ProofPositive]

Tribute is small batch, so I don't think there'd be any variance bottle to bottle, by the way Happy Birthday Wayne!!!! :fish2:

THANKS VERY MUCH!!!!! I should have opened one of my Tributes for the occasion. Instead, I went after a long-envied bottle of ORVW 15-107 from the bunker. I figured it was time to start drinking it instead of looking at it!

Besides, it is just me around here to enjoy all this good stuff. The wife is not into bourbon very often......likes red wine instead (YUCK!!!!!). So, I'm holding the Tribute in the unopened position until I can get together with some other sb.com folk in the future (near I hope) or others who can appreciate the finer side of life.

[Bamber]

I cracked open a bottle of the WT 12yo split label a couple of nights ago, with the memory of the gold foil, relatively fresh in my head.

Now the split label 12yo is easy to get over here (well from Germany) and costs less than RB, but for some reason this is the first time I've bought it. I mention this because it means the WT 12yo does not enjoy the status rarity gives it in the US (we have the opposite situation, with BT's antique collection over here - especially GTS).

It is very dark, and obviously well oaked from both the colour and the nose. The very first sip out the bottle was quite grippy and for a moment I thought I would not enjoy it.

However, a few minutes to breathe and a little warming allows this to open up into a very interesting bourbon full of complexity from the wood, but maintaining the WT flavour profile we all love.

It is a great whiskey to chew on, and extremely flavourful, but for me the gold foil version is far better balanced, especially in the finish.

I plan to buy another couple of bottles of the split label, so I'm really impressed with it, but all that oak on the finish stops it being a great bourbon IMHO.

I tried it next to some Weller 107 7yo, which I have to say I personally preferred.

As an aside got to try the latest WT RB (57.1%) and am just so impressed and this is my favourite pour of the moment.

[Rughi]

...Now the split label 12yo is easy to get over here...

I think one thing to keep in mind with the WT 12 year and WT 8 year is that, in America, these bottlings represent a snapshot in time as well as a product. American "cheesy" gold foils and split label WT 12s have specific eras associated with them that may or may not be the same whiskies as the current export versions.

To me, the WT 8 I have open (which has an apparent bottle date of 1988) is significantly different from any recent WT product I've had. I would guess that the current export WT 8 is more akin to the domestic WT 101 than the WT 8 of the 1980s, and similarly would guess that the current split label WT 12 may more closely resemble other current WT products like, say Kentucky Spirit, than the splitters of the mid '90s.

Some of us Bay Area guys had a similar tasting to the one that Mike and Christian talk about at the start of this thread in posts 49-56 of this thread

[Bamber]

That makes sense to me and it flags up an issue I have with the labelling for whisk(e)y generally.

Would it not be great if every bottle had a bottled on date as well as an age statement.

Independent Scotch bottlings and some American single barrel offerings (GTS for example) are good on this, but I really think other labels should be more transparent.

The fact that many premium bourbons give no indication of *where they were distilled* or when they were bottled seems crazy to me.

[AJ123]

I'm a fan of all the WT's. However, I happened onto a good deal and now have three unopened and one 75% bottle of WT Tribute. I thought it might be rather similar to Russel Reserve because the bottles are the same. However, It is distinctly different and superior. I understand it is not being produced anymore (I heard only 5,000 bottles). So I'm carefully hanging onto my three :cool: (here in Dallas).

[dougdog]

Christian,

My experience in taking pictures of the color of whiskey in bottles is similar to yours. I am NOT a photographer, but here is a suggestion. Try this, if you can put the whisky into 375ml or pint "flask" shaped bottles with no labels and place them side by side in front of and on top of a white background...along with them being where there is reflected light only, except from the flash.

My experience has been that those conditions will likely yield a better result if you are looking to demonstrate a color change.

I would say from looking at your picture that when three bottles are place in close proximity, the center bottle starves for equal light and gives an unrealistic "camera view" perspective.

There ought to be someone on this forum that IS a photographer that could give us both advice for better results.

Doug

[Sijan]

I have compared my 3 bottles of WT12 split label to one bottle of WT12 gold foil (I have another bottle of WT12 gold foil, but it's still in original tissue and I don't want to unwrap it for this - might make a good trade). They all appear to be about the same color - certainly nothing like the color difference that appears in those pictures. The 05/07/98 split label bottle and the gold foil bottle might be a tad darker than the two 10/02/97 bottles, but it's hard to tell for sure.

[kbuzbee]

Sounds like a great time Mike!

I think the discusssion is hitting on a good point raised here before. That, over time, the quality of wood available to distillers has changed markedly. I wish I knew more about the impact of various characturistics of wood but it does, conceptually make sense.

One of the great things of products like Bourbon is being able to see the differences over time. Be these changes due to changes in the skill of the distiller, the equipment, the raw materials or the processes used.

We are all very blessed to live in a time where we can sit around and discuss them. Thanks to all of you!

Ken

[TimmyBoston]

Today, I made a nice find. 3 bottles of Wild Turkey 12 Year, bottled in 1998. I can't wait to crack this baby and test her out!

If anyone is interested in a trade or purchase, please send me a PM.

[TNbourbon]

...If anyone is interested in a trade or purchase, please send me a PM.

You might want to taste one before you're offering to part with very many of 'em!

[Sijan]

I also recently came into the possession of several bottles of WT12 gold foil and am open to trading possibilities. I think I have three now safely at home with me after my recent rescue run to Austin and two more in my Texas bunker. Four of them are in their canisters. Would be willing to trade 2 or 3.

[photogjunkie]

Hey man...stop raiding the Texas stash. I'm tired of hearing your conquests for trade in my state. Leave it for the locals...carpetbagger...go back home...and score. Sorry...no offense...but we Texans speak our mind.

[Sijan]

You Texans had years and years to make your move, but never did. Guess you needed a "yankee" like me to rescue these poor lonely bottles from a decade of neglect.

[ILLfarmboy]

Owing to the generous cooperation of a fellow SB.com member I had my first taste of WT 12 split label.

Last night we held a small dinner party, just one other couple. Steaks on the grill, scalloped corn, baked potatoes and a wonderful spinach salad.

The highlight of the evening, after desert (my home-made ice cream) was the WT 12. We tasted the WT 12 split label against WTRR 101 and RB all in Riedel bourbon glasses. I ranked them as follows: WT 12, Rare Breed, and then Russel's Reserve 101. My friend ranked RR just a tick higher than RB. we both agreed, however that RR and the 12 year had the same deep mature wood notes but I thought the 12 was better balanced with a delicious creamy middle a longer finish and no alcohol bite whatsoever.

The creamy middle was a surprise. A pleasant one. The whiskey was undeniably Wild Turkey but with those 12 years spent in the barrel both that fresh wood character (that can sometimes be distracting) and the rye bite were gone. Replaced with the aforementioned creamy middle and a more mature rye contribution.

Thanks again to the SB.com member without whom last night would not have been possible.