Where are The True Indpendent US Bottlers

[dougdog]

I wonder if a company like KBD would take you into their warehouse and let you sample barrels to make your choice, bottle them for you, un-cut at barrel proof, non chill-filtered, and make a custom label for you...

[doubleblank]

Tim....I hear what you're saying about picking the "ideal" proof of a single barrel or leaving it at barrel proof. After I picked my barrel of Van Winkle Lot B, Julian commented that he agreed with my choice as being special and interesting ..... and added that this was one barrel he'd like to do at barrel proof.

But many barrels taste better at lower proofs. Just last week at a SW barrel picking at BT, they lined up 5 barrels and thieved samples. As we reviwed the samples, many noted that barrel 2 was very hot on both the nose and taste at barrel proof. I commented "Don't dismiss this one just yet....nose it and taste it at a lower proof". Guess what....at lower proof this one was the best of the lot and the groups top choice. This is where the services of an IB come into play....they could pick the proof that best presents a particular whiskey. My point is that going for barrel proof does not always give the consumer the best product. If all we had to evaluate the barrels last week was a barrel proof sample, barrel 2 might have come in last.....and missed getting a special whiskey.

Chuck raises a good point....now that BT has two established labels at barrel proof.....one rye and one wheat...theoretically we could ask to taste some barrels and have them bottled at barrel proof. They probably won't do it beacause these are their flagship bottlings so to speak and want to keep it a limited bottling.

The Kulsveens and Julian are probably best situated to do some of the things being discussed here. To date, they have focused recently on developing "brands", but have helped various others like the Twisted Spoke in Chicago and Blue Smoke in NYC get labels approved and do special bottlings for them. They are the ones to answer the question posed here....why not do special, single barrel bottlings for a few premium markets?

Randy

[NorCalBoozer]

But many barrels taste better at lower proofs. Just last week at a SW barrel picking at BT, they lined up 5 barrels and thieved samples. As we reviwed the samples, many noted that barrel 2 was very hot on both the nose and taste at barrel proof. I commented "Don't dismiss this one just yet....nose it and taste it at a lower proof". Guess what....at lower proof this one was the best of the lot and the groups top choice. This is where the services of an IB come into play....they could pick the proof that best presents a particular whiskey. My point is that going for barrel proof does not always give the consumer the best product. If all we had to evaluate the barrels last week was a barrel proof sample, barrel 2 might have come in last.....and missed getting a special whiskey.

Randy

A 90 proof or chill filtered bourbon is not the same as a barrel proof/unchill filtered bourbon. Both can be outstanding, but are not the same product.

To me it depends on what the outcome you're shooting for is, which for me is uncut, and not maximizing the taste from a set # of barrels to get the best taste from those barrels.

If your premise is that you want barrel proof unchill filtered bourbon, then you start from there and pick barrels accordingly. If you don't find what you want in taste profile, then you don't purchase anything to bottle within those specs.

Maybe go to another distiller and keep trying.

I can see what you're saying about the best barrel out of a group having to be watered to 90 to get the best taste profile of 5 barrels. that makes sense if your ultimate goal is to get the best tasting bourbon from 5 barrels. We are clouding the point b/c people want to get the last of the S/W. Lets take the last of the S/W out of the picture, what if your goal is to get the best barrel strength, unchill filtered bourbon?

I and others are probably more interested in the category of barrel strength unchillfiltered bourbon right now, independent of any particular distiller. While S/W is great whiskey, I'm not that inclined to get an uncut version just b/c it's S/W. I'd like to have good S/W bourbon(at whatever proof) and also I'd like to get an array of bourbons that are uncut.

[TMH]

[doubleblank]

We've kind of moved this thread off topic from "Where are the IB's and why aren't they doing special bottlings?" to "Why aren't there more barrel proof/unchill filtered bourbons out there?" Again, I think Julian, Drew and the important retailers could answer the first one and any distiller or IB could answer the second, different question.

Since this a free enterprise system.....I'd bet its just good ol' economics. My guess is that building brands is more important to the current IB's than issueing small, specialty bottlings.....and the big guys (at least their accountants) don't see a large market for the barrel proof/unchill filtered products.

Randy

[doubleblank]

Last comment regarding the selection of barrel proof/unchill filtered bourbons. To my knowledge, Bookers, Stagg, and W L Weller are the commercially available barrel proof, single barrels available in the US. BT also makes a barrel proof single barrel Blantons for overseas which I have tasted (and still have a few). I don't know how Beam picks their barrels for the barrel proof, but BT picks them by tasting with water.....not based on tasting a barrel proof sample. In fact, when BT needs some barrel proof Blanton's, they just grab the next Blanton's in line and bottle it uncut. Not hand selected because they stand out at barrel proof. So in the US, I'm not sure anything we get at barrel proof has been hand selected based on its taste uncut. Like others, I like the concept of someone picking a single barrel to bottle uncut based on the barrel proof taste.....I'm not sure its being done for bourbon anywhere.

Randy