BOTM, 6/06: PVW 15yo

[jeff]

June's BOTM was decided by 75 of our members voting in a poll that included 5 flagship bourbons from Kentucky's finest distilleries. The winner brings to the BOTM the legacy of 3 generations of bourbon distillers. Though the name and packaging may have changed, no one disputes the quality of the contents. The pedigree is apparent in this most recent addition to the family. By popular demand, this month's BOTM is:

Pappy Van Winkle 15yo

Discussion of the previous incarnation of this bourbon, ORVW 15yo, is not only allowed, but encouraged for comparative exposition.

:893drillsergeant-thSound off:893drillsergeant-th

[hookfinger]

I may not be as articulate as some here in the matter of tasting notes but I'll start. I never really had the opportunity to purchase ORVW 15, or I passed it by without conscience thought. Which is too bad because I really like this one. My state store doesn't carry this particular expression so I was pleased when I found it on my travels. When I got back home and tasted it though, I was bowled over. Ithink this may be as close to perfection as I have ever tasted. Because I can't get it all the time, I tend to savor every pour with extra attention. If you were keeping an eye on me at the Tasting, you would have noticed that I made my way back to the Van Winkle table a couple of times for this at the expense of overlooking some of the others.

Hopefully someone will point something out in this discussion that will make that light bulb go off over my head and I'll remark "Yeah, that's exactly it!" Til then I'll sit here in anticpation of getting off work this evening and having a drink of what has become my favorite bourbon, yet.

[BourbonJoe]

I never really had the opportunity to purchase ORVW 15, or I passed it by without conscience thought. Which is too bad because I really like this one. My state store doesn't carry this particular expression so I was pleased when I found it on my travels.

You missed the boat Hook. Pennsylvania not only had it but sold it for 28 bucks. That was about a year ago. I bought all I could afford. Not to worry though, I saw some fairly recently in Maryland, so it's still around.

Joe :usflag:

[scopenut]

As PVW 15yr has replaced ORVW 15yr, is the former a limited release in any way? It's somewhat available here in FL, but not easy to get (true of many upper end brands). I was wondering if there's any point to stockpiling the PVW 15, or if it is/will be generally available.

Thanks.

Kevin

[bluesbassdad]

Kevin,

In my experience all of the Van Winkle products are, in a sense, limited, and that's not just some marketing strategy. It's a fact of life. Not much is produced. Distribution is uneven. Its fans tend to snap it up wherever and whenever they find it.

If PVW 15 is your favorite, and if your tastes tend to remain reasonably constant, then by all means buy all you can afford and store. From what I've read here it's my belief that this is so-called "old-stock" bourbon; the distillery that produced it is no longer in operation. Whatever Julian comes up with to replace it down the line will be good, but it won't be the same.

How I wish I had stocked up on ORVW 10/107 (or the identical Old Commonwealth, which was a couple of bucks cheaper) back when it was Stitzel-Weller bourbon. However, by the time I learned enough to know such things, the SW stock was no more -- replaced in that bottling by product from Bernheim (or so I have read).

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[scopenut]

Thanks, Dave.

Being a relative newbie, I'm still trying to decipher the whole S/W, Bernheim, Buffalo Trace provenance thing. So was ORVW 15 a S/W product, and the PVW 15 is Bernheim? Or am I (most likely) still confused? Sorry if this is in the FAQ/archives.

Kevin

[bluesbassdad]

{Hey, Chuck . . . HELP!}

A while back Chuck Cowdery covered much of the relevant information all in one place in his newletter, The Bourbon Country Reader.

Unfortunately, I don't have my copy readily at hand.

However, my recollection, perhaps from some other source, is that the provenance (I must look up that word) of PVW 15 is unspecified. IRRC, Julian has declined to state its source here.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[Rancastle]

As PVW 15yr has replaced ORVW 15yr, is the former a limited release in any way? It's somewhat available here in FL, but not easy to get (true of many upper end brands). I was wondering if there's any point to stockpiling the PVW 15, or if it is/will be generally available.

Thanks.

Kevin

Stitzel Weller closed the doors in 1992. If you do the math, the 15 yr old is almost gone. Julian told me last year there might be 500 cases each of the last couple years. I'm sure he & Preston will continue to have great whiskey long after the S/W is gone. I can tell you I've stock up on anything Stitzel Weller!!!

[scopenut]

So were both ORVW 15 and PVW 15 from Stitzel Weller, or just ORVW 15? If the latter, where is/was PVW 15 produced?

Sorry if I'm being dense here, just trying to learn.

Kevin

[doubleblank]

I'm having a little PVW 15 this evening in respect of its choice as BOTM. I like it....as I liked the ORVW 15. This one seems a little drier on the finish....perhaps not as sweet a finish as I recall the ORVW 15. My guess is that it is ageing a little differently now that its in BT's rickhouses and not Julian's old location. It has the richness....but a little more wood to me.

Randy

[scopenut]

That's interesting, Randy. I can't compare to ORVW 15, which I've never experienced, but I had my first taste of PVW 15 tonight, and found lots of maple syrup, both in the body and in the finish. Nose was vanilla and raisins to me. Excellent stuff!

Kevin

[Nebraska]

As someone stated before, I'm probably not the biggest fan of Pappy 15. Don't hate it, but there's just others that I prefer much more, namely Pappy 20...yum...for that matter ORVW 10/107 (current edition that is).

I'm gonna do a side by side of ORVW 15 and Pappy 15 and report back.

[bluesbassdad]

Thanks to my unofficial midwestern connection I found two bottles of PVW15 in my closet this evening. One is now down to the 3/4 mark. No serious tasting tonight, but then again I wasn't totally oblivious, either.

I found the intensity of the first few sips overwhelming (and that from a wheater, Gary!). The nose was very pleasant at full strength, but I needed to tone down the palate. I think the flavor element that I found to be excessive was barrel char. I made no effort to measure the water I added. One gurgle wasn't quite enough, so I added one more.

The amount of water that allowed the bourbon to display its palate in a more laid-back manner was detrimental to the nose. Perhaps this bourbon must be served in two glasses to be enjoyed fully. Nose one; then sip the other. :grin:

During future sessions I'll try to tease out some flavor elements.

Oh, and I still prefer the squat bottles with the antique-looking label.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[Hedmans Brorsa]

So were both ORVW 15 and PVW 15 from Stitzel Weller, or just ORVW 15? If the latter, where is/was PVW 15 produced?

Kevin

Seek and ye shall find. Posted by Julian, february this year :

I'm telling you guys, the whiskey in the 15-year Pappy is the same as the ORVW 15-year.So why drive yourselves nuts looking for these old botles!

However the 15-year is very limited. We only have about 500 cases to sell worldwide each year.

Julian

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

I didn't vote for this because it doesn't appear on the shelves around here. But the BOTM is the BOTM. I may have to actually order from one of the excellent websites here in Japan instead of just lurking them.

Ed

[cas]

This continues to be my overall favorite - though I did prefer the squat bottle with Old Rip on the label. Either way it's a dense, aromatic pour with a great interaction of caramel and wood. However, our local distributor has recently raised the price from about 36 to 49 dollars.

Craig

[scopenut]

$49 here in Florida, if you can find it.

Kevin

[Ambernecter]

I voted for Booker's but any VW offering is gonna be tough to beat.

I have said before I prefer the 10YO 107, but despite a slightly dry finish the 15YO is a top notch whiskey and a firm fave of most people on this here forum.

Rightly so... it is super whiskey but Hellish on the price front in England!

[OscarV]

. Pennsylvania not only had it but sold it for 28 bucks. That was about a year ago.

Joe :usflag:

Wow! $28.00,

Last summer I got a bottle of ORVW 15yo. and paid $62.00. Michigan is at the tops as far as alcohol tax goes.

Now get this, the guy tells me then that it is their last bottle and they will no longer make it. And me being the geek that I am still haven't opened it.

But I will before I die.

Written in at the top of the bottom label is "No N 131" anyone know what that means?

Oscar

[gr8erdane]

And me being the geek that I am still haven't opened it.

But I will before I die.

"Eat, drink and be happy for tomorrow we may die"

Not sure if that is the actual quote but it sums it up for this "just open the bottle" nut.:slappin:

[cas]

Wow! $28.00,

Last summer I got a bottle of ORVW 15yo. and paid $62.00. Michigan is at the tops as far as alcohol tax goes.

Oscar

Great. I'm moving to Michigan in a couple of weeks...

Craig

[BourbonJoe]

Written in at the top of the bottom label is "No N 131" anyone know what that means?

Oscar

The Van Winkles numbered their bottles, but it is a meaningless numbering system. I guess it just makes it look more authentic Oscar.

Joe :usflag:

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

I didn't vote for this because it doesn't appear on the shelves around here. But the BOTM is the BOTM. I may have to actually order from one of the excellent websites here in Japan instead of just lurking them.

Ed

Well, I have checked the aforementioned websites and they don't seem to have the PVW 15 or the ORVW 15. I found the Van Winkle Family Reserve 15. Is that close enough or is it a different animal?

Ed

[NorCalBoozer]

Well, I have checked the aforementioned websites and they don't seem to have the PVW 15 or the ORVW 15. I found the Van Winkle Family Reserve 15. Is that close enough or is it a different animal?

Ed

Ed, the full name (just grabbed my bottle) is "Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 15 years old"

so i think "Van Winkle Family Reserve 15" is the same thing as PVW 15. Unless this is some sort of export only bottling, but i've never heard of an export only Pappy 15.

Greg.

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

Ed, the full name (just grabbed my bottle) is "Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 15 years old"

so i think "Van Winkle Family Reserve 15" is the same thing as PVW 15. Unless this is some sort of export only bottling, but i've never heard of an export only Pappy 15.

Greg.

Hmm. Near as I can see in the pic on the website it is Van Winkle Family Reserve 15 years old. No Pappy. I will probably buy it, after all, it has to be good!

Ed