BOTM, 6/06: PVW 15yo

[bluesbassdad]

Ed,

Perhaps this website , which pictures Van Winkle bottlings presently being produced for stateside distribution, will give you a clue, if not a definitive answer.

Of course there's always the possibility that additional bottlings are shipped to Japan. From past exchanges here I know that even Julian doesn't always remember every single bottling he has released.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[BobA]

Beacuse of BourbonJoe's posting over on the tasting board, I broke out the ORVW 10/107 and 15/107 last night. As usual, I got vanilla, some maple syrup, and a great "richness" from each, but in truth, I can't separate them.

Bob

[DrinkyBanjo]

Are you saying you cannot differenciate between ORVW 10 & 15 or ORVW 15 & PVW 15?

I can see where comparing the two 15 YOs might be difficult (and that'd be a good thing) but the 10 and 15 seem to be very different to me for whatever that's worth.

[BobA]

No, I really can't. Not with any reliability. FWIW, my 10 is SW as well. I've not had the PVW 15 at the same time as the ORVW 15, but as I understand it, there is no difference in the two 15's but the proof.

Bob

[bluesbassdad]

Kevin,

My memory was a little off when I referred to a certain post by Julian. Here's what he really said in that post.

I'm still looking for the relevant copy of The Bourbon Country Reader. I wish I had the foresight and gumption to keep them in a binder for occasions such as this.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[OscarV]

Great. I'm moving to Michigan in a couple of weeks...

Craig

Craig,

sorry to hear about the move to Michigan, you will hate the weather, winter is ofcourse winter('nuff said), we have no spring, summer is humid, but in October there is always a nice week 2 thirds thru the month.

It's like 12 months of cabin fever.

Because of the bad weather people play cards and drink schapps, fruit flavored vodka or cheap light beer.

Oscar

[OscarV]

"Eat, drink and be happy for tomorrow we may die"

Not sure if that is the actual quote but it sums it up for this "just open the bottle" nut.:slappin:

I'll get to it Dane,

I got a lot of gems on my shelf, I save the best for last or when there is a special occasion I'll move something up in the rotation.

Oscar

[Chaz7]

After reading all the posts about price, availability, and comparisons to the discontinued ORVW 15, I figured, what the the heck, I'll have a glass! PVW 15 is probably one of my favorites, with their 20 year old the only one I can readily think of that bests it. While I do like the ORVW 107, I think the added 5 years of the Pappy rounds it out; more flavor, smoother, even at the same proof. This is NOT one I will add water or ice; just neat in a Riedel Bourbon glass. Thoroughly enjoyable.

[DrinkyBanjo]

No, I really can't. Not with any reliability. FWIW, my 10 is SW as well. I've not had the PVW 15 at the same time as the ORVW 15, but as I understand it, there is no difference in the two 15's but the proof.

Bob

Actually ORVW and PVW 15 have the same proof of 107.

[BobA]

Well, I guess my memory is going too. Different bottles, at least?

Bob

[DrinkyBanjo]

Yes, the ORVW has the 'classic' stout look and the PVW is the new elegant look with the picture of Pappy on it.

[wadewood]

As Chuck has mentioned, any bourbon with 'old' in the name is considered out of date; perhaps this is why the change from ORVW to PVW?

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

Ed,

Perhaps this website , which pictures Van Winkle bottlings presently being produced for stateside distribution, will give you a clue, if not a definitive answer.

Of course there's always the possibility that additional bottlings are shipped to Japan. From past exchanges here I know that even Julian doesn't always remember every single bottling he has released.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

Hi Dave,

The picture on the web site that I am looking at most resembles the Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye label on the the website you posted a link to.

Ed

[DrinkyBanjo]

Well, I tried both (ORVW 15 and PVW 15) last night side by side. Both were delicious and very, very close in all aspects. I think if you did not try them side by side and you were a ORVW fan you would not be disappointed by PVW.

I would not spend too many hours hunting down ORVW if you have easy access to the PVW.

[GoodDrinkin]

While visiting Cincinnati I was able to score a bottle of PVW 15 at a certain store just across the river. I still have a bottle and a quarter of ORVW 15 here at home. I agree with the poster that said the Pappy seems a bit drier. Very, very good, but maybe slightly different. Heck, it could be that the ORVW has been sitting in a lot of air for the past year or two.

[Chaz7]

This weekend, I was at a bar at the Broadmoor; they had an extensive bourbon list (and they were smart enough to separate Tennessee, North American, and Kentucky). But NO Van Winkles. I asked the manager/buyer for a PVW. He said it is the most requested bourbon (this is the Broadmoor, customers and guests usually get what they want), but Buffalo Trace is making it impossible to bring in citing shortages, etc. Now in Las Vegas, I saw lot's of PVW and ORVW; so is the lack of Pappy here (in bars and resturants only) a regional issue, or as the manager said, shortages are hurting accessability? By the way,this is a Pappy 15 discussion, and thats what I am inquiring about; however in it's place they served me a Hirsch 16 yo, my first.

[Ambernecter]

Broadmoor is a secure institution where they house the criminally insane over here in England...

Not having any VW products available IS criminally insane and would strike me as grounds for incarceration!

[gr8erdane]

I won't disagree with that.

The Broadmoor here in the US is a secure institution where they house the criminally wealthy under the shadow of Pike's Peak....

Said individuals are sentenced to wander the championship golf course (US Senior Open venue), languish in the spas, eat the finest meals, and drink (with obviously pointed out exceptions) the finest beverages while being forced to view the Garden of the Gods from the 5 star institution....

How I wish I'd been born wealthy rather than insane.....

And so as to not totally hijack the BOTM thread, my first tasting of this one was at the Gazebo right after it was introduced. I gave a bottle of David Nicholson 1843 to a certain Teutonic visitor who reciprocated by grabbing the open PVW 15 he had brought to the table right out of someone's hands and giving it to me in trade. It was half gone when I got it and empty laying on the floor next to me in my room the next morning. I can taste the similarities between PVW 15 and ORVW 15 but to me the PVW is more silk to the ORVW's fine linen.

[Chaz7]

Dane, you cracked me up! But back to th Pappy; this is, at 107 proof one of the smoothest bourbons I have had the pleasure of indulging. It, along with it's big brother the 20 yo, and the rest of the VW family belong in a bar as nice as any of them at the Broadmoor. But underscored in my post is my concern for it's availability as stated by the manager. Is it something to be concerned about? At that though, one of our better liquor stores had 4 on the shelf.

[pepcycle]

That's what I say!!!

Dane???:skep: :skep:

[bluesbassdad]

Oh, and I still prefer the squat bottles with the antique-looking label.

While the above is strictly true, it's implied meaning is not -- at least not tonight. The content of the PVW 15 bottle was more enjoyable than that of the ORVW tonight.

When I opened the PVW, I immediately smelled overripe apples, a pleasant aroma, actually. I realized that it's largely the texture of an apple turned pale brown that is objectionable.

As I continued to nose it (in a Rare Breed rocks glass, the one with a moderate inward taper at the top), I found that the initial aroma was detectable only at a distance of several inches. Closer than that, the more customary aromas of bourbon, caramel, oak, etc, took over.

I had no other insights while I finished a very generous pour -- proabably three to four ounces.

On a whim I went looking for my lone, remaining bottle of ORVW 15/107. I found it to be less than one-quarter full. I poured a scant ounce and, relying on memories of previous tastings, I prepared for a quantum leap in bourbonic enjoyment. It didn't happen.

The apple aroma was still there, but more toward the green, sharp side. Close nosing revealed a slightly sour element, consistent once again with green apples.

On the palate it was not nearly as full-bodied as I remembered, not even close to the PVW 15. A bit of soot, as in charcoal, came through. It reminded me of some of the bourbons that I consider to be on the borderline of being overaged, Elijah Craig 18 y/o for one, but not quite that sooty. I had found not a trace of soot in the PVW 15.

As of this second I really prefer the PVW 15, in spite of my previous protestations when it replaced the ORVW 15/107.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[ProofPositive]

While the above is strictly true, it's implied meaning is not -- at least not tonight. The content of the PVW 15 bottle was more enjoyable than that of the ORVW tonight.

As of this second I really prefer the PVW 15, in spite of my previous protestations when it replaced the ORVW 15/107.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

After reading your comments, I was happy to find someone else out there who had the same experience as myself of late with PVW15 and ORVW15. It has happened twice this month and left me scratching my head both times. When I opened the PVW a couple of weeks ago (my first), I really expected just the opposite to occur. However, after reading your post, I realized I was not losing my mind. Thanks!

[tmas]

These unimpressive tasting notes of the ORVW 15 don't mirror my experiences with this bourbon. I noticed that most people talking about the PVW 15 are saying things like " when I first opened the bottle" etc., while the ORVW 15 seems to be coming from open bottles. One comment mentions the ORVW bottle being 1/4 full. Isn't it very likely that to really compare the two accurately you'd need to be opening a fresh bottle of each? And I too prefer the squat antique looking bottle to the new look. Tom V

[DrinkyBanjo]

Yes, I do believe you are right. BTW, I kinda like the new bottle.

[tmas]

Well Tim, it's not that I don't like the new bottle, it's just that the old one is so funky and sort of conjures up the images that I associate with bourbon. I just think it's the classic bottle shape and a classic label. Tom V