My Memories of Kinsey Distilling

[dave ziegler]

First Jono the reason it has IL is that Old Hickory was made before Prohibition by another distiller and Publicker Bought the Label in 1933 when Prohibition ended and used the Name to make their Finest Bourbon completely different from the original. Continental Distilling started in 1933 when prohibition ended with Mr Si Neuman and Harry Publicker sitting down and creating all the brand names for their future products, except for Old Hickory which had been well Known back in the day and during the creation time they tried to tie lots of Names to Places in Phila.

One example being Rittenhouse rye which was originaly called Rittenhouse Square Rye! Or who could forget Cobbs creek Blended and as far as The Philadelphia name besides the Blended Whiskey, way Back there was Philadelphia Straight Rye Whiskey which I had a bottle given me by my friend who was high up in Marketing, and it is wonderful Rye!

Working for Publicker I can tell you that Old Hickory had its own Mash bill not shared with any other one.

Our Finest Bourbon Whiskeys were in order of the best

1. Old Hickory Bourbon - Its own Mash Bill

2. Hallers County Fair BIB -Its Own Mash Bill

3. Charter Oak

4. Planters Club Striaght Bourbon

The Last place Old Hickory was ever made was Medley where Mr Medley had bought all our Whiskey for Old Hickory already bottled, tankers and barrels full. He told me he sold the brand to someone else who He thought later sold it to Leroux Liquor's but He was not sure who had it now. I would love to own the label as I would find someone to make and put the Finest Bourbon in the Old Hickory brand.

If someone bought it to live off its past with Poor whiskey in the bottle I would rather the name ever be used again.

I have two of the Medley bottles he bought from us He stamped over Linfield Pa and put Ownensboro KY on the label of the full bottles he bought and He also bought Labels and stamped over them. I am lucky to have two of these bottles in my collection of bottles.

Dave Z

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It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

[Jono]

I wish I knew how the label can be obtained....I wonder if the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau has information on such a transaction. I imagine you have to be "in the business of distilling" to actually buy the label.

Do any of your old papers show the actual mash bill?

[dave ziegler]

I do not have the Continental Old Hickory Mash Bill Jono! Yesterday I took what turned out to be a very sad and depressing walk through Kinsey after not going there since Nov due to the bad weather. I saw two young guys stealing sheet metal I did not say anything as not wanting to get in a fight. But what really killed me was going into the Old Kinsey Bottle House where all the Liqours were always made for Continental and seeing that much more of the upper burned out second floor has fallen in due to Pipes being stolen. And the thing that mad me almost blow a gasket was seeing all the stuff that was stolen by the guy this winter who pretented he was going to buy Kinsey.

He cut all the heating pipes and stole the Old Kinsey Whiskey Blender I wish I could beat on Him. I talked to some kids and they told me He drove around town during Dec and told everyone he was buying Kinsey so he could just walk in and steal at will I got some people to call the realter and they said he never talked to them about buying it.

The people I told saw him in there one morning around 4:00-am called the police and they got him for tresspass only, as He did not have any metal at the time.

It is getting hard for me to enjoy going in unless I am telling someone about the place because of all the ruin now.

I took some pictures which I will post tomorrow.

Dave Z

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It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

[ethangsmith]

Dave, I'm going to try and nail down a weekend in April to get down so we can go through everything. I look forward to it!

[dave ziegler]

Ethangsmith Let me know and make it early April becasue of Ivy poison and weeds as I want to take you on a trip through how everything operated! Today I have a couple of special pictures from the time when Mr Kinsey Had Angelo Myers promoting his Whiskeys. Mr Myers never owned the Plant and I can prove that by statements of His great Nephew Al Landis and Ludy who worked for Mr Kinsey.

When Mr Kinsey started he needed someone well known to get people to try his straight whiskeys so He choose Angelo Myers a highly well Known Spirits broker.

1. & 2. Are prepro ads for Kinsey Products with Mr Myers Name on the Distillery

3. An old order form to get a case of Whiskeys note addressed Philadelphia where Mr Myers Had his office.

Dave Z

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It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

[dave ziegler]

Today I want to talk about one of the Finest Bourbons ever made Continental Distillings Top seller Old Hickory Straight Bourbon Whiskey and its History before Publicker Bought the Brand at the end of Probition and Once Publicker took that Name and made it one of the most famous Brands of Whiskey Ever! The Brand Old Hickory was first branded and used in the year 1907 by a company called Fleckenstein-Mayer based in Portland OR. the Company was started in 1876 by Henry Fleckenstein who later 1901 took on a partner Named S. Julius Mayer. They used the Old Hickory Whiskey brand name from 1907 till prohibition in 1915 when they went out of bussiness.

They must have had their Old Hickory made for them in KY as an Old Coaster picture I have says Hand made in Woodford county KY so it most likely was made at the " Old Crow Distillery" there back in those days or another in the near area? Not sure just guessing with the statement on the coaster. From what I could find they were just Liquor Merchants like many others those days who had products made for them.

For some reason the Picture I posted of the Coaster that says woodford KY did not show here so I will post it on a short thread right after this one.

1.through 3. Are A fleckenstein Old Hickory shot glass, a Picture of their Offices in Portland OR, and Old Letter head from the long gone company.

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These are Old Hickory once Continental Distilling bought the brand name

4. A Continental Distilling Ad for Old Hickory

5. This picture is of the Owners manual for my Old Hickory Caraf set of Whiskey Bottles made by Continental Distilling

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When Prohibition ended Publicker in early 1933 Quickly bought the Old Hickory brand and used it till late fall 1979/80.

They turned a Known Pre pro brand name into an amazing high Quality Bourbon brand with choices of 80 proof 4 yr & 6yr, 86 proof 10 yr and Old Hickory BIB 100 proof, and Old Hickory Aniversary 20 yr old Bourbon made with whiskey from The Old Kinsey Warehouses D,and E down front near the river with Barrels from the early 1950's I saw back when I worked there in the yard gang.

When I get a chance I will post a picture of the First Continental Old Hickory Bourbon Bottle made after Prohibition, as I have one.

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It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

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Dave Z

[dave ziegler]

Here is the Picture of the coaster I was not able to get to go on the thread right before here. Please look there #730 first. This coaster was Old Hickory when it was distilled for Fleckenstein in the mid 1900's. Don't know why but had to redo the picture to get it to go on so it was to late for the thread before which was about this picture and the early Old Hickory Story. please go back page 73, #730 for the story as my luck here today has put this on the next page from the story I am having a bad day today

Dave Z

[dave ziegler]

Here are some of my latest pictures in the Plant during Sat April 2 and Monday April 25 something went wrong here and only 7 came up so I have to try and repost the 30 others again later this week or next

1. looking down from the mid plant 1/2

million gal tanks to O warehouse

2. Old Silos and grain drying building

3.. Grain Process building from here it went to the Still area.

4. Walking toward the Old Kinsey Maintaince Barn looking at what is left of the Old DSP-pa 10 Kinsey Rye Barn.

5. A Pile of Bricks where the Old Kinsey Plant Office once stood next to the Old Kinsey Bottle House stands in ruin.

6. Cathotonic and Anatonic tanks April 25 very wet in there.

7. two weeks ago of the Old Bottle House was dry and now on April 25 after all the rain the water was to deep for me to walk in.

I loved the Old Kinsey bottle House it was the first Bottling house I was ever in when I started there, and Ludy and Al Landis have told me so many great stories about it!

Also Many of the Ladies that worked in the Big Bottle House loved the old one because they could get a drink alot easier there and they nickmaned it Happy House! Hope these pictures have been interesting, and I hope sometime in the near future to get in the Big bottle house to take pictures of what the Vandels have done including the guy who told everyone in Linfield He was buying the Place just so he could go there during the Christmas Holidays to steal. I also hope I can get my other pictures to post.

I can never forgive him for stealing the Old Blender from the Old Bottle House before I could save it for History.

Dave Z

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It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

[mike22487]

Hi Dave. I walked through the property the last time i was in Pa to take some pictures of the property, this was on 7/31/2010. Here are some of the pictures from there, I have many more but it is nothing you haven't seen.

Old Truck behind the bottle plant

the large tank that seems to move all around

Fire extinguisher dated from 79/80 surprised that is still there

Graffiti in one of the 2 large tanks

The fire observation tower

Nature taking the warehouses back

The scale in the building with the tanks out back (forgot the name if it)

Room with some fuse boxes, empty of course

PS. Dave I PM'ed you on the other forum hope you get my message, I will send you one on here also

[dave ziegler]

Hey Mike I will get in touch with you to go to Kinsey! Here are some new pictures from the plant from last week and early April.

1. Last week leaving the Plant I discovered 5 original charred Floaters laying where valdels had tossed them plus one broken in half. I brought them home and while I was next to the old Guard box I took a picture of two of them. When we started the 380 gal and 120 gal Whiskey Barrels when I was in the yard gang we where directed certain amounts of charred Floaters to be put in each barrel as we filled new barrels. They had experimented with floaters back in 1962. So when Makers did their thing last year it was with an idea which Continental Distilling had tried way back in 1962.

2. The Original big sign from warehouse R waiting for Fricky to shlack for me when he can. It is safe at Kinsey east.

3. This is an old Wood laminate Picture with the early products of ours from our 1947 Broshure this once hung at Continental Distillings World wide Headquarters at 1429 Walnut Street Phila. It was given to me by my friend who was high up in Marketing for the company.

4.A shot of the fron and side of the 1966 Bottling House as weeds and trees take it over in early spring!

Last week walking around I studied the area where the old DSP-PA-#1 stood and figuered exactly where the old Tunnel was where we took break when I was in the yard gang and the next 3 pictures explain it.

5. Looking over the remains of the still foundation you are looking at the old door that came down stairs to the Tunnel.

6.Looking over only at the door to the tunnel.

7. When I was standing figuiring how this was layed out it all came to me when I saw the white paint on the wall of the grain process building this was the tunnel area and just as I stood thereI saw something that was there all the time and I even found the distillery sign near here. What I saw was some old Lockers.

8. Lockers standing right there where a roof and ajoining building had once been and these are some of the lockers and where I had my Locker back then! We sat on Old 1930's benches to eat those days and I listened to many old stories of the Old days then.

I have some Phila Plant Pictures I am going to post on 1966 bottle house thread today. I was thrill when I put this all together to give you idea of how the Still building was down the high bank it sat on.

Dave Z

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It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

[Jono]

Mike, very nice photo of the large tank graffiti, actually, rather artistic graffiti at that! My gosh, how large are those tanks? Any idea on width and height? Surprised they were not salvaged for scrap.

Dave, regarding -

5. Looking over the remains of the still foundation you are looking at the old door that came down stairs to the Tunnel.

Where did the tunnel run - between which buildings and what was its use?

[ethangsmith]

I was able to spend today with Dave at Continental and got the full tour. Talk about HUGE! I'm used to little Michter's in Schaefferstown and to see the scale of this distillery is absolutely amazing. So as to not use up more space for this thread, I will link you to my blog where I have a few photos of the day. A huge thanks to Dave for taking my wife and I through and going into detail about how everything worked!

http://theethansmithblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/other-abandoned-pennsylvania-distillery.html

[dave ziegler]

I was able to spend today with Dave at Continental and got the full tour. Talk about HUGE! I'm used to little Michter's in Schaefferstown and to see the scale of this distillery is absolutely amazing. So as to not use up more space for this thread, I will link you to my blog where I have a few photos of the day. A huge thanks to Dave for taking my wife and I through and going into detail about how everything worked!

http://theethansmithblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/other-abandoned-pennsylvania-distillery.html

Ethen it was my Pleasure taking you and your wife through the Plant and I was worn out after the next group of 5 people after you.

Dave Z

[ethangsmith]

I'll bet! That was an awful lot of ground to cover. I still have the Continental Corn Whiskey barrel head drying in the basement. So far so good!

[ethangsmith]

Anyone seen or heard from Dave? He was supposed to email me last week but never did. I'm worried something may have happened to him since we were out in the heat so much when I was down there with him.

[kickert]

Anyone seen or heard from Dave? He was supposed to email me last week but never did. I'm worried something may have happened to him since we were out in the heat so much when I was down there with him.

I was just thinking we hadn't heard from Dave in a while... Hope everything is okay.

[dave ziegler]

First I am back ,Ethan and everyone, been feeling poorly and working in this heat I get very tired. When I was giving tours Sat and Sunday 3 weeks ago Mike found me a very Old Whiskey Thief in the ruins of The Old Kinsey Bottle House and I took to show Ludy. It was not the type he used but He confirmed it was a very Old Whiskey thief so Tomorrow I will take a picture of it to post. PS Jono the tunnel was a section made into a room and was between the Buildings I am standing in the dirt where it was taking the Picture of the door!

We had alot of fun doing the tours and I hope to do more sometime.

Pictures are

1.&.3 a old Bag feed bag maker that fell down from the second floor of the Old Kinsey bottle House The 2 days Mike was with me He took a picture and showed his Dad who had worked there and He said that it was a bag Weaver!

2. The Anatonic and Cathionic Tanks missing all the Pipes to them which have been stolen by the Guy who pretended He was going to buy the Place!

I have some great Broshures I want to scan one is the 1970 Company Report which was given me by My friend who was high up in the Company.

So I will be posting again soon. Thanks to all who were wondering if I was Ok. I love writting here and hope to do it many years yet, to keep the Memory of Publicker Alive!

Dave Z

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It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

[dave ziegler]

Well every time I go to Kinsey I am always looking for something to save for History and the first Picture here will be something new saved for History a very Old Whiskey Thief found under the fallen down back side second floor of the Old Kinsey Bottle House by Mike for me, which was used by Continental to bottle Liquors. Also some pictures never before taken in the second floor of the Grain Drying building for me by Ethan at the end of Our tour when we found an old ladder that was sitting there but to weak and dangerous for me to use but He was able to get up it with out it breaking while I held it.

1. & 2. Pictures of the Old Whiskey Thief

3. Ethan climbed an old Ladder left by Kids to get me some never seen pictures of what is left of the second floor of the Old Kinsey Grain drying Building. It was here Old Charlie Sipler took his shower after work and just below kept his 100 Horse power ford flat head buggy.

4. Second Floor Grain drying building

5. Electric meter on Second floor of grain drying building.

6. Our Old Soda Machine in the Old Lunch room at O building. Ethan and I stood it up after vandels had fliped it over. Many a ginger ale came from this machine to mix with Whiskey! Good days they were!

7. Inside one of the uprights coming down in the Grain process building.

8. Electric controls second floor of Grain dying building.

9. Rickety Ladder to 3rd floor of Grain drying Building to bad for Etham to go up.

I still have some more pictures to post on this thread in a day or two and please look on my other two threads as I have posted stuff on them also.

Dave Z

------------------------------------------------------------------------It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

[Parkersback]

Dave, your passionate work in documenting these things is really wonderful and valuable. Cheers, and thank you.

[G.H.Adams]

Dave,

Thanks for what you are doing. It's a shame that our whiskey heritage is being lost on a daily basis. In a perfect world all this would be saved for future generations.

[dave ziegler]

Greg again thanks for your Kind words! Today I want to talk about filling Barrels at Kinsey working in the warehouse. Every Morning each warehouse lead man would get his papers for that days job. But first a Picture of Old letterhead from my collection pertaining to, when

Yesterday I talked about our early use of Floaters here again is a piece of Letter Head where Continental was wanting to try reusing Barrels with ( slabs Floaters ).

1. Letter Head from Nov 1962 shows we thought about extra charred wood 38 years before Makers mark tried a form of this. We Invented the Idea!

Now Continuing my topic

On some days a gang would be given the Job of Filling Barrels from tankage where it had been stored after being trucked or railcared in a tanker up to Linfield to be put in barrels and aged in Our 14 High tect explosion Proof Warehouses. I have posted and have an original filling nossel from Warehouse O the government building and Bonded warehouse. The hose setup came off a large Pipe straight from a storage tank and looked like a giant Gas pump handle even having a lock hold on it. From the stainless tank the whiskey to be barreled, flowed into a heavy stainless pipe,then a rubber Hose and metal nossel We would have brand new barrels rolled up there. You would like filling a gas tank, fill till it got to a certain point on its side at the bung hole where you filled it to the right amount of 48 gal needed and then someone would drive a brand new bung in and it would be stood up stenciled with a seris / Group serial Numbers / date of filling and date of distillation place of Distillation DSP-Pa 1 , type of whiskey ( Bourbon ect ). Also the serial numbers when I worked there were put on sideways smaller so you could read it no matter where the head was turned in the rack with your Flastlight. And lastly 48 gal stenciled on the head. The smell of filling whiskey Barrels was very Nice I just love the smell of Whiskey even new whiskey and of course nothing smelled better then the Blue air coming from the aging whiskey in the warehouses. It was like walking into a giant Whiskey Vaporizer!

I can't remember how many we did a day but time flew by! Barrels would be racked by another gang and moved to what rack and floor the paper work stated. Another gang would be on an upper floor if the Barrels where going up on the Barrel elevator.

It was a big job and a fun job barreling Whiskey which if you worked there many years you would some day pull from the racks to be processed and Bottled and Know you helped to make this special Product! A very rewarding Job for sure and a Job I loved very Much!

Dave Z

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It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

[dave ziegler]

When I was at Kinsey last night I got a few more letter heads with company bussiness on them. I want to try and get my scanner working and post them,I also found some letters from customers about some bad Governors club whiskey. When I walked up to the open gates which normaly are closed it brought back so many memories, I just had to stand there and in my mind put things back to those great years there!

I looked to my right and imagined the old Maintance barn like it used to be and one of the Old 1941 Ford trucks was sticking out of Dickie Phiefers repair bay,and ahead of me was the Old #12 and I was a young man of 20 years old walking to clock in the year was 1967.

Then I walked slowly down the road into the plant which is now mowed and I looked to my left expecting to see 3 box cars and many trucks at the bottling house docks.

Then I walked into the old 1966 Bottling House and my friends were closing roll doors, and the rolling down of the doors made a whisper like the sound of a bottling line starting up.

But sadly I went back to reality and the bottle house looks like a bomb hit it and the stainless pump heads and many motors and three 200 gal stainless tanks have been stolen last Christmas Holiday by that creep who told everyone in Linfield his dad was rich and helping him to buy the plant. All a game so he could rob and destroy the Plant. I hope some day he gets caught stealing somewhere and I see his picture before a trip to Jail.

I later walked into J Warehouse to see that piles of cased brand new bottles never to see whiskey had fell over into a broken mess with Mold and dampness.

In my Mind Kinsey will always be the beautiful place it was and. As I left my mind went back and I could Hear the Old 1941 Ford Flat Head trucks roaring down through the Plant and I left just remembering those days and People. One thing that hit me going in was the smell of the cut grass not pretty like the old days but still the smell,and also how big and beautiful the Pine tree I mulched back then 44 years ago and The Plant and The Company and its wonderful people will live in my heart forever!

Dave Z

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kinsey The Unhurried Whiskey For Unhurried Moments

[dave ziegler]

Well here are some company bussiness leters I found today

1. Letter head about a tanker of whiskey going to our Lemont IL bottle house. Note S S. Neuman on top of Letterhead

2. April 10, 1979 Our Daily dumping papers. Each Lead man some listed on this one have there jobs for the days dumping. Boy was I thrilled to find these as tell the amounts to be dumped each day on each one.

3. Feb 27,1979 dumping papers Some of the lead mens names Al Rhoads, Bob McGinley, Joe Machukas. Jack Raysor and Many more

4. April 6, 1979 more whiskey dumping papers boy are these historic!

5. More company paper work

6. Point of Sale paper holding papers for Scotch, Straight and Gin found these today in O building. They Say Publicker Distillers on the side of them.

7. Paper billing for whiskey sold to Paramont Distillers Cleveland Ohio 6-1-1977.

8. Inver House Scotch and Neutral spirits to be shipped to Linfield from Bigler Street.7-30-1976.

Boy am I glad I was able to get these and some more to save for Company History. Every time I can save something for History of Publicker/Continental and Kinsey I am thrilled.

I hope everyone who looks at these threads enjoys my work on all 3 threads today.

Dave Z

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It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

[G.H.Adams]

Dave

Thanks for all your doing. I have learned a great deal from your posts and look forward to learning more.

[dave ziegler]

Greg I am going back to Warehouse H this weekend for one last picture shoot.

I wish everyone could have seen what it was Like when we filled and piled those 340 Gal barrels. First you filled them with what looked like a giant gaseoline handle on their side, then rolled them on the lift so we could flip them up right. Then teams rolled them into place.

After the floor area was filled came the real hard part we would be putting sheet after sheet of heavy Plywood on top of the barrels.

Next fill the next ones on their side, get them on the lift and lift them up on one of the Old Electric Cable controled lifts which were not made to lift 340 gal barrels and get them just above level of the Plywood and a team of about 6 to 7 Guys would have to lift the barrel off one edge and roll it on the Head band to its spot. Sometimes we used and Long wooden handled dolly to pull as others pushed.

It was dam hard work and I wish you could have seen those 340 gal barrels they looked Like giant pot belly stoves! They only went 2 levels high.

And Boy did they Leak sitting on their Head, the floor always had some whiskey laying under them. They were a night mare!

But the memories are great of those days and we hoped that this would work out for the good. The 120 gal barrels were not to bad but they got stacked also but in 3 levels with plywood.

Talking about it makes it seem like yesterday even though it was almost 40 years ago.

Dave Z - It Seems All The Nicest People Drink Old Hickory

America's Most Magnificent Bourbon

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