Is weller 12 yo and Pappy vw 12 yr the same stuff?

[Russellc]

On another forum several of us have been discussing favorite bourbons, and of course I put in a vote for PVW 20yr. Several others piped up about the 12 yr, 15 yr as well as the 23yr. One poster claimed that the Pappy Van Winkle 12 year is the same recipe, distilled at the same place etc as the Weller 12 yr old, just the PVW is from certain barrels and the Weller is the rest. anyone got the skinny on this one?

Russellc

[TNbourbon]

There is no Pappy Van Winkle 12yo. There is a Van Winkle Special Reserve Lot B 12yo, which once was made with Stitzel-Weller bourbon -- from which the Pappy bottlings derive -- but now contains bourbon distilled at the Bernheim Distillery in Louisville.

There also once was an Old Rip Van Winkle Old Time Rye 12yo, which was replaced by the current Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye. Also, I believe there was an Old Rip Van Winkle 12yo bourbon bottling that went to Japan.

As for the W.L. Weller 12yo, that is a creation of the Buffalo Trace folks, after they purchased the Weller labels from the former United Distillers and Vintners (UDV). The Weller 12 did not exist during the brand's Stitzel-Weller days.

[dgonano]

Just to add to Tim's comments:

During the UDV days Buffalo Trace distilled wheated bourbon under contract for United. This whiskey ( I assume acquired from UDV ) is used to fill bottles with the Weller labels.

[ThomasH]

I was wondering if anybody has a bottle of the Weller 12 with the new label? If so, is it 86 or 90 proof? I was looking at Binny's website last night and noticed that they list Weller 12 as 86 proof. I have a bottle with the old label purchased in Jan. 2005 that is 90 proof. I am just curious!

Thomas

[Ubertaster]

I was wondering if anybody has a bottle of the Weller 12 with the new label? If so, is it 86 or 90 proof? I was looking at Binny's website last night and noticed that they list Weller 12 as 86 proof. I have a bottle with the old label purchased in Jan. 2005 that is 90 proof. I am just curious!

Thomas

I have the new bottle and it says 90 Proof.

bj

[cowdery]

BT also acquired some Bernheim-made wheated bourbon when it obtained the Weller brand and some of that could be in your current bottles of Weller 12. We also know they have been putting some stray SW barrels into the mix too.

[doubleblank]

This one is tough to answer without referencing bottling dates, was it a SB bottling, etc. Until a couple of years ago, VW 12yo Lot B was SW whiskey and Weller 12yo was a blend of SW and other wheated whiskey (per Ken Weber). In 2005 IIRC, Julian began using Bernheim distilled whiskey in the 12yo Lot B. But in the fall of 2005, a group of SB'ers bought four barrels of Weller 12yo from SW barrels. This past summer BT was still putting SW whiskey into certain bottlings of Weller 12yo (ie the Everett's Liquor's Weller 12yo). What's in the generic Weller 12yo????? My guess would be some combination of Bernheim/BT distilled barrels and perhaps the stray SW barrel.

Randy

[Keenan]

Ok, I'm am bringing this thread back to life. I was off work today with nothing to do, so I drove to the Buffalo Trace distillery for a tour. The people their are awesome. There was a large group of kids already there for the last scheduled tour of the day, but my self and two other guys from Lexington showed up. They took us on a seperate tour. I could not believe it, yet another reason to make them the Distillery of the Year. But, back to topic. The guide took us into the warehouse and was showing us some barrels of their experimental stuff. He would not say what, only that it was not french oak. Anyway next to this where some barrels of Weller.

He asked "Any of you all like Van Winkle, 12 year old, Lot B?" (He looked at me, because we had all ready uncovered that the other two like Buffulo Trace and Pepsi with an occasional Mint Julip. Hey, drink it how you like it.) I replied yea, actually it is one of my favorite pours. He went on to explain that Weller 12 and Lot B 12, are essentially identical whiskies with the expection being that Lot B is specially selected. He was all like, "same receipe, same barrels, same ricks, same age, same proof, $20 or $40, you decide." Well that is what I decided to do, so I went and picked up a bottle of Weller 12.

I poured each into a Glencairn and this is what I came up with. The nose of the Lot B had a sweet, candied fruitiness. This is present in the Weller, but there just is not as much of it. It even seemed that the nose of the the Weller went flat after inhaling half a second. On the pallet, the Lot B had the sweet, fruitiness carry through. The Weller, on the other hand, had more oak come out, suppressing what little fruitiness there was. Maybe I am just a fan of cork tops, but the Van Winkle Lot B just has the level of refinement that a want in a bourbon. The Weller 12 is a great bourbon, the Lot B is just better. For my money, I'll take the Van Winkle, thank you.

[NickAtMartinis]

Ok, I'm am bringing this thread back to life. I was off work today with nothing to do, so I drove to the Buffalo Trace distillery for a tour. The people their are awesome. There was a large group of kids already there for the last scheduled tour of the day, but my self and two other guys from Lexington showed up. They took us on a seperate tour. I could not believe it, yet another reason to make them the Distillery of the Year. But, back to topic. The guide took us into the warehouse and was showing us some barrels of their experimental stuff. He would not say what, only that it was not french oak. Anyway next to this where some barrels of Weller.

He asked "Any of you all like Van Winkle, 12 year old, Lot B?" (He looked at me, because we had all ready uncovered that the other two like Buffulo Trace and Pepsi with an occasional Mint Julip. Hey, drink it how you like it.) I replied yea, actually it is one of my favorite pours. He went on to explain that Weller 12 and Lot B 12, are essentially identical whiskies with the expection being that Lot B is specially selected. He was all like, "same receipe, same barrels, same ricks, same age, same proof, $20 or $40, you decide." Well that is what I decided to do, so I went and picked up a bottle of Weller 12.

Thanks for sharing this information. That's very interesting, indeed. I wish me and the family were closer to KY to take tours of BT and others.

Thanks again. Great information.

[wadewood]

I think most of us will agree that Buffalo Trace makes some great bourbon.

I have been on their tour twice. The tour guides I had gave a canned presentation and when I asked any questions, they knew very little beyond this presentation. Unless you had a personal tour from Elmer T Lee or Ken Weber, I think I might discount the tour guide's comments.

[Keenan]

All I know about the guide is his name.

[wadewood]

If the guide was accurate, it also shows that Julian Van Winkle knows how to barrel select some fine bourbon!

[mozilla]

I had a great time on my tour. the guide was awsome despite being sick that day. he gave three of us the royal treatment. Introduced us to Harlen and Elmer. Got to taste whiskey out of both stills and lots more.

[cowdery]

The threshold knowledge that makes one a bourbon sophisticate is understanding that the same age, same recipe, same distillery, and same proof, doesn't necessarily mean the same whiskey.

[Gillman]

A whiskey can vary, to a greater or lesser degree (any brand) even from the whiskey in the next bottle of the same brand. While house flavors and recipes of course exist, small differences can add up to cause these variations. There are many reasons for this even where it is intended that is to reach the same profile. The wood will vary from barrel to barrel, therefore batch to batch, probably the exact location in the warehouse where the barrels came from varies somewhat, the ages, etc. etc.

Gary

[CrispyCritter]

He went on to explain that Weller 12 and Lot B 12, are essentially identical whiskies with the expection being that Lot B is specially selected. He was all like, "same receipe, same barrels, same ricks, same age, same proof, $20 or $40, you decide." Well that is what I decided to do, so I went and picked up a bottle of Weller 12.

The Weller 12 is a great bourbon, the Lot B is just better. For my money, I'll take the Van Winkle, thank you.

Well, no two barrels are really alike. Think of the extra money for Lot B as a labor charge for barrel selection - one that is well worth it. On the other paw, I've never found Weller 12 to be disappointing.

[jvanwinkle]

I can only speak for our VW 12-year Lot B. We do have first choice at BT over all the wheated barrels. Preston & I taste every barrel before we bottle, so they will be what we think are the best of the bunch.

Julian

[Bob O.]

Preston & I taste every barrel before we bottle, so they will be what we think are the best of the bunch.

I could think of worse jobs to have...you do an outstanding job, Julian.

[OscarV]

We do have first choice at BT over all the wheated barrels.

Julian

I have a question.

What was Buffalo Trace's original intention for some of the bourbons that you have choose?

In other words, what was BT going to label it, before you got it?

[cowdery]

BT has owned the W.L. Weller line of wheated bourbons since 1999.

[barturtle]

I have a question.

What was Buffalo Trace's original intention for some of the bourbons that you have choose?

In other words, what was BT going to label it, before you got it?

BT has owned the W.L. Weller line of wheated bourbons since 1999.

And that is the only other wheated bourbon BT bottles...and currently the ages on the Weller max out at 12yo...but that doesn't mean some of the older stuff might not make it into a batch of sat W.L.Weller Centennial 10, but basically there probably isn't a lot of spare 12yo plus whiskey to go around,

So, I would say-in general- it's Weller under 10yo, either Weller or VW at 10-12yo and VW past that age....barring the few barrels that are used in special bottings like WLW.

[Pastor Bourbon]

To draw a comparison from the wine industry here in Australia's Barossa Valley, South Australia:

Wolfe Blass was originally a grape purchaser who when he found a particularly good lot of grapes would set them aside for himself the year he decided to establish his own winery label. Good grapes make a difference.

He proceeded to give different coloured labels to the different quality wines he put into the bottles, recognising that even the best grapes can be further graded and batches combined to make a better quality wine.

The same is true in brewing beer and since alcohol comes from a 'beer' it must be true for spirit as well.

My my my... if I had my druthers, being involved in this species of industry could be great!

[jvanwinkle]

I came into the BT joint venture with my own SW barrrels that I had purchased some years ago. BT is filling in the gaps in my barrel inventory with what would have been Weller. Obviously, any of these Weller barrrels have to pass the VW tasting panel before we'll use them!

Julian

[barturtle]

I came into the BT joint venture with my own SW barrrels that I had purchased some years ago. BT is filling in the gaps in my barrel inventory with what would have been Weller. Obviously, any of these Weller barrrels have to pass the VW tasting panel before we'll use them!

Julian

True, and I wasn't discounting the role that your tasting panel plays in picking out exceptional whiskies, just pointing out what the options are for current stocks of wheated bourbon at BT.