Guest **DONOTDELETE** Posted December 11, 2001 Share Posted December 11, 2001 Gentlemen,Where did Diageo come from? How did it start? What mergers where made and when? What American whiskey distilleries were acquired and when. What were the ultimate outcomes of these acquisitions?Thank you from the historically challenged,Linn SpencerHave Shotglass. Will Travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitzg Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 from www.diageo.comDiageo is one of the world's leading consumer goods companies. Formed in December 1997 through the merger of GrandMet and Guinness, Diageo has an outstanding portfolio of world-famous food and drinks brands including Smirnoff, Johnnie Walker, J&B, Gordon's, Malibu, Baileys, Guinness and Tanqueray --Across more than 200 countries and many cultures 1749 -- Giacomo Justerini arrives in London from Italy and forms the Johnson and Justerini partnership - predecessor of Justerini and Brooks 1779 Johnson and Justerini start selling Scotch whisky 1831 Alfred Brooks purchases Johnson & Justerini and re-names it Justerini & Brooks 1851 Justerini & Brooks join forces with Twiss Brownings and Hallowes Ltd - agents for Hennessy cognac since 1840 - to form United Wine Traders Ltd 1962 W&A Gilbey merge with United Wine Traders to form International Distillers & Vintners (IDV) 1972 GrandMet acquires IDV 1997 GrandMet and Guinness merge; United Distillers & Vintners (UDV) created from the integration of the IDV and UD businesses 2000 • Diageo plc and Pernod Ricard SA to acquire Seagram spirits and wine business (December) Mike and Chuck can give you the acquisition trail in the U.S.Diageo is the parent firm of such other brands as Pillsbury including Old El Paso and Burger King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdelling Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 >2000 • Diageo plc and Pernod Ricard SA to acquire Seagram spirits and wine> business (December) I have a dumb question.What does "plc" mean? I always see "Diageo plc" and it's confused meevery time. Is it some business name abbreviation like "Inc.", "Co.", or "Ltd." ? Does it mean that they're controlled by the Illuminati? The Masons? Martians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 PLC: Acronym for public limited company. The designation on a U.K. company's name indicates that shares of the issue may be purchased by the public and traded freely on the open market. In other words, Masons.<A target="_blank" HREF=http://cowdery.home.netcom.com>--Chuck Cowdery</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitzg Posted December 13, 2001 Share Posted December 13, 2001 and I thought it was the Martians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest **DONOTDELETE** Posted December 18, 2001 Share Posted December 18, 2001 Thanks for that timeline Greg! Good intel. Any idea as to why Diageo does not mention either George Dickel or I.W. Harper among their brands?Linn SpencerHave Shotglass. Will Travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitzg Posted January 2, 2002 Share Posted January 2, 2002 sorry for the delay in answering, Linn.These bourbon brands are not 'big fish' to a huge firm like Diagio. While they have some interest in niche markets and niche products, they normally focus on the big sellers where the big money is.To sidetrack that is one reason Sazerac, being a smaller spirits firm, can let Gary and Ken at Buffalo Trace focus on experimentation and mutiple brands while Fortune Brands' Beam puts a lot of money behind white label, then Knob Creek - their best selling small batch.But we can't be fooled. Most business people have to balance any love of crafted product with the money to be made from marketing to the masses. More people willl buy a Ford Focus (one of the world's best sellers) than a Jaguar (also now owned by Ford). Thus, the total sales of Focus is likely MUCH more than the total sales of Jaguar and there is more profit in the Focus line. Sorry, I am carrying on....Gregkitzg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Greg,That brings me to my biggest complaint about the bourbon business: If the big companies don't really care about the finely crafted whiskeys, then why won't they PLEASE stop buying them up? Let somebody make them that cares about the bourbon instead of maximal profit.Sorry. I get excited, sometimes.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest **DONOTDELETE** Posted January 3, 2002 Share Posted January 3, 2002 Tim please allow me to butt in at this point. We Southeners tend to attach ourselves to moral causes. In this case it is the loss of bourbon heritage. It is right that we should rant and rave. All we are saying to those that would listen is 'pay attention'!"Let those who have eyes see. Let those that have ears hear" - Jesus ChristWe Southeners also like to quote Jesus and have GOD on our side because.. well... because it's a Southern thing! [DAMNIT!] Don't try get me confused when I know I'm right. You sound like bleedin' MARY flippin' POPPINS.. " Just spoonful of scotch makes the distilleries go down...the distilleries go down..the distilleries go down".Here are some hard facts - U.D.V./Diageo bought out Bernhiem; Stitzel-Weller and Glenmore. ALL DEAD!Who killed 'em? Hmmm? Did they commit suicide? Or were they murdered?!Just a spoonful of scotch makes the distilleries go down ..the distilleries go down...the distilleries go downHEY that's the wrong song! Just a spoonful of bourbon makes the scotchies go down..the scotchies go down..the scotchies go down. Just a spoonful of bourbon makes the scotchies go down in the most delightful way!!!BOURBON - THE BEST TASTING WHISKEY ON THE PLANET!Lock 'n' Load!Linn SpencerHave Shotglass. Will Travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitzg Posted January 4, 2002 Share Posted January 4, 2002 Tim, first I think you may be reading something into my message that is not there. I do not suggest that they don't care at all about the business. They would not buy a company if they did not have interest in it. Yet, they are MORE interested in those brands that give them the greatest return. If someone has a day job and a night job and their day job pays all of their bills while their night job gives them extra money (for bourbon?), it makes sense that if their day job work starts to suffer because they are working two jobs they may decide to quit the night job or at least cut back on their night hours. The big companies are always making priorities and often the smaller brands suffer.Which leads to another point. The brands that get sold sometimes would not have been sold if they had been bigger brands and more profitable. Business is business. We all want to get pai d for what we do and firms must look after profit. If some of those distilleries that went up for sale had been able to be more profitable there would have been no reason to sell. Re big firms worse? Seagrams was a big company. Yet, in the discussions I've had with craftsmen who've worked for Seagrams they felt the top execs. really cared about qualtiy -- so big may not always be bad. (Of course they made more money by selling Four Roses as an export so I suppose some will argue about those decisions for us drinking here.)Having said that, there are lots of examples of dumb management decisions. Managers are people and make the same kind of dumb mistakes (heard of Enron?) that others do. So sometimes some idiot just simply killed a good business.Finally, it has been said in this forum by others that we have more quality bourbons with greater variety than was the case 15 - 25 years ago. If that is true, we can't be too harsh on the industry. Hope this answer isn't too much of 'being carried away.' I'm really not trying to defend anything. Just answer your question.-- Gregkitzg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 Greg,That was a well thought out answer. And I do understand what you're saying.I simply regret that small/medium businesses can no longer compete with the huge conglomerates. It causes severe loss of individualism and heritage and unique products.The same thing is happening to farms and ice cream makers and pharmacies and department stores and ....I don't know what else to say.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest **DONOTDELETE** Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 Pardon me once again Tim. Greg is a super guy. Very cerebral - he knows his stuff, and he's a lot of fun at a party! No wonder he's a Professor of Marketing at the University of Indiana.At least Charles Medley has been able to buy back his family's distillery from Diageo. Buddy Thompson was just heart broken over the rape of Glenmore, but they were offered two and a half times what it was worth, and they took it. Greed is a very powerful force.Where would Stitzel-Weller be today if Julian P. Van Winkel III were running the show? One taste of his bourbon will tell you it wouldn't be the ghost distillery it is now.The Browns are still in firm control of Brown-Forman Corp. No danger of them falling into Diageo's diabolical hands.In fact Diageo has probably done as much damage to bourbon as they possibly could already. Only Dickel remains in their dastardly clutches. It may already be a dead distillery. We just can't be sure yet.Linn SpencerHave Shotglass. Will Travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbutler Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 Linn,Here's a subject that's noteworthy; If you take a look at David Sherman's web site <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.davidsherman.com>http://www.davidsherman.com</A>, it indicates that they own the Wathen's label.Cheers,Jim ButlerStraightbourbon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest **DONOTDELETE** Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 N-N-N-NO Say It Ain't So Joe Demagieo! Joe's wife [Marilyn Monroe] showed her under-alls to an entire lustful nation now Charles Medley has sold out to Bobby Sherman?? No I mean David Sherman! Stop me before I commit a crime! ( I don't have the bail!)David Sherman has always been listed as the 'bottler' of Wathens. Don't you believe it! Charles and his son Sam along with a small handful of other fine folks bottle up the Wathen's Single Barrel Bourbon as if it were formula for their children.All this Bobby 'David' Sherman crap is just that - crap!Linn SpencerHave Shotglass. Will Travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitzg Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 Don't lose heart, Tim. Remember Sam Walton was a little guy who got laughed at. Wal-Mart is now the world's largest retailer. Bill Gates was once a little guy. In fact a lot of innovation does come from the 'little guy.' And often the little guy becomes the big guy. But it is also true that sometimes the little guy is so successful that he/she (let's not forget some of the little 'guys' are gals) gets bought out. And indeed it is often greed that allows the buyout. But it is also true that the big corporations can screw up businesses as easily as they can make big brands grow. They also can make it very tough on little guys who won't sell. And that IS a sad part of life. But it has been like that for a lot of years. And thanks, Linn, for your nice words. And as Linn points out, since the bourbon industry is still a bit down home (everybody knows everybody) there are a lot of nearly incestuous deals. Like who stores barrels in whose warehouses and who might get barrels from whom. One more thing. Happy New Year and thanks to all of you who contrbute here for the good of us all. The sharing of information here is great. -- Gregkitzg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted January 5, 2002 Share Posted January 5, 2002 Thanks, Linn. I hope it is apparent that I am not criticizing Greg or what he is saying. I am only lamenting what is going on in the world of bourbon.I hope Greg hasn't taken any offense from my remarks (and I didn't detect any in his reply). None at all was intended.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitzg Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Tim, rest assured I took no offense nor thought any was intended. You asked a question and I tried to answer it based on my experience and my observations in the spirits industry. I hope the exchange was helpful to us all. And of course, I don't have all of the answers but I have opinions :-)Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Sherman's web site indicates that they distribute Wathen's, not that they necessarily own it. In fact, there is no reason to believe they own it. I'm confident the brand is still controlled by the Medley family, so settle down, Linn.There's nothing wrong with David Sherman. They are a bottler, marketer and rectifier. They are a niche player and God bless them, because they are keeping several venerable brands alive. No one will say on the record, of course, but they probably get their whiskey (aside from Wathen's) from Heaven Hill. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://cowdery.home.netcom.com>--Chuck Cowdery</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbutler Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 It's fairly hard to argue with Rebel Yell for <$10 for 750ml as well. I've paid twice that for lesser bourbons. That alone gives them the thumbs up in my bookCheers,Jim ButlerStraightbourbon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Great. Thanks, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Although I haven't tried it, we have also seen good comments in this forum about their Ezra Brooks.<A target="_blank" HREF=http://cowdery.home.netcom.com>--Chuck Cowdery</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porgymcnasty Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 I was dismayed by the following, which involves Diageohttp://classes.seattleu.edu/business_graduate/mktg591/obermiller/barmarketing.htmalso referred to on:http://www.webtender.com/iforum/message.cgi?id=13304&show=new&sort=datethe webtender forum involves a poster called Angus, who works in the same daigeo department mentioned in the article.here is an article specifically on Angus:http://www.city.reuters.com/global/food_drink/drink/505844/?version=1if anyone has any questions on Diageo, and its weird stratergies, ask Angus!http://us.geocities.com/sidecar_sid/front_page.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitzg Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 I wondered why this dismayed you. >>"I was dismayed by the following, which involves Diageo">> http://classes.seattleu.edu/business_graduate/mktg591/obermiller/barmarketing.htm>>"The Diageo team is studying how bars can be redesigned and bartenders retrained to encourage more people to splurge on a premium cocktail, containing a Diageo brand. The Jose Cuervo margarita dispenser"---Beer companies have been using 'in your face' on-site promotion with neon, tap-handles, free bar stools, free pool table lights, free mirrors, free coasters, free mats,.... for years. I've been in bars since the 1980s that found it easy to have margaritas on-tap (Chi-Chi's chain, for one). I would not be a bit put off if I walked into a pub and saw a Knob Creek neon, or T-shirt, or Mirror. I DO prefer my whiskey to be poured from a bottle (so I can see I am getting the right pour) but many chains use dispensing units for at least the volume brands.Thanks for the info, though.-- Gregkitzg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnrobe Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Ugh! A margarita slurpee machine. Having personally honed my margarita making skills in Texas and knowing the fierce margarita competition between bars there, I bet the slurpee machine never makes it into Texas.I guess the most we can expect from Diageo is Dickel & RC cola in a 2 liter bottle.JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porgymcnasty Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 they do not use slurpee machines, and draught cocktails in quality establishments.Diageo (and others) seem to copy 'proper' cocktails, then repackage them with inferior ingredients.Cocktails only taste at their best when made fresh, otherwise they are just alcoholic soda.George!actually one new bar I worked had a slushy cocktail machine,I left. I have got standards!!! http://us.geocities.com/sidecar_sid/front_page.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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