Bourbon at bars?

[ThomasH]

I don't really drink much when we go out to eat. I hate paying some jacked up price for a mixed drink made with an ordinary, dull whiskey. I have yet to find a bar/restaurant in my area with a selection of bourbon that even comes remotely close to my home bar. Most don't even touch my home bar as far as whiskey selection period, no matter what type. My wife used to get mad at me for buying some of the more expensive bottles I have until I pointed out that even though she might pay 3.00 for a beer in a bar, she still ends up with a Bud Light. That same 3.00 gets a great drink of whiskey at home!

Thomas

[cowdery]

So, you're charging your wife for drinks at home? Great idea!

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

Here in Sapporo, good service is the rule and I get exceptional service more often than I get poor service. Selection is another matter. A restaurant may have only one or two Japanese whiskies a cheap one and maybe another middle shelf one. They may have one bourbon, Early Times or JBW. I have to order very clearly if I want my whiskey to arrive neat. "Neat, no ice, no water." Often they will bring me a beaker of water and a tub of ice on the side.

One nice custom here is called 'bottle keep.' You buy the bottle and they put your name on it. Thereafter, when you visit that establishment, you only have to ask for your bottle. I have a bottle of Early Times Bourbon at one place I go to regularly. I hadn't drunk much of it before, but it is really starting to grow on me.

The places that have a good selection usually have a great selection. My favorite place has Pappy 20, WT 12, Eagle Rare 13 year old, Elijah Craig, both the 12 and the 18 year old, Black Maple Hill, I don't know what age, Noah's Mill, Blanton's, Old Fitzgerald 12 year old, OGD 114, and a number of other middle shelf bourbons. Their scotch selection is very good, too. I get great pours in nice glassware and they sometimes shave a bit off the bill, too.

Ed

[TBoner]

The places that have a good selection usually have a great selection. My favorite place has Pappy 20, WT 12, Eagle Rare 13 year old, Elijah Craig, both the 12 and the 18 year old, Black Maple Hill, I don't know what age, Noah's Mill, Blanton's, Old Fitzgerald 12 year old, OGD 114, and a number of other middle shelf bourbons. There scotch selection is very good, too. I get great pours in nice glassware and they sometimes shave a bit off the bill, too.

Ed

By the beard of Zeus! I would fall over dead from joy if I saw that collection sitting on a back bar...or even on my liquor store shelf.

[ThomasH]

So, you're charging your wife for drinks at home? Great idea!

I don't charge my wife for drinks at home. I'm sure I could make some good bucks doing this in the short term, until the bills from some divorce lawyers started rolling in!

Thomas

[Brennan77]

Most of the better restaurants here in New Orleans have pretty darned good whisky selections. And judging by some of your reports, they are great selections. Of course the Bourbon House has a fairly comprehensive list. Drago's also has a nice shelf the last time I was there. Another one that comes to mind is Clancy's. As I recall, I spent a considerable few moments deciding on what I wanted there. Also, I've never had a problem getting a neat pour in a snifter. Then again, I always clearly spell out what I want, assuming bourbon ignorance is the rule. It's not meant to be rude or condescending, I would just rather get exactly what I want the first time around.

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

Most of the better restaurants here in New Orleans have pretty darned good whisky selections.

The place in Sapporo that I was talking about styles itself as a New Orleans bar. It is called Buddy Buddy.

I know other places that have very good selections, another that has a back bar full of rarities but the prices aren't as good. The big hotels have a good selection of upper middle to top shelf bourbons, and of course scotch, but the prices are sky high and the pours are dinky.

Ed

[ILLfarmboy]

I thought it might be interesting to post a link http://www.copiamartini.com/index.html to the bar with the best selection I have come across in my area. Actually, it's a 40 minute drive. Here is their list of bourbons:

• Blantons - $10.50

• Bookers - $11.50

• Evan Williams Single Barrel - $10.00

• Jack DanielsSingle Barrel - $7.50

• Knob Creek - $5.75

• Makers Mark - $4.50

• Woodford Reserve - $9.50

• Wild Turkey Rare Breed - $12.75

• Basil Hayden - $7.75

• Bakers - $8.75

Not listed on their web site, but I know they carry the ubiquitous JD Black label, JB White and WT 101. No JB Black though, at least not the last time I was there several months ago.

They bill themselves as a retro-rat pack kind of joint. One of the few places you can ask for your bourbon neat in a snifter (and no one bats an eye) or a well made Manhattan. You do have to specifically request bitters, though. Prices aren't too bad and pours are always quite large, especially if you ask for it in a snifter. They use fairly large ones and fill to the proper level laying the glass on it's side and pouring up to the lip.

You can order a number of wines by the glass or the bottle. They have a nitrogen preservation system (at least that is what I think it is) for open bottles which are placed in a glass display as part of the back bar. It's really as swanky a place as your gonna find out here in the pucker brush.

If you check out their 'martini menu' the no#2 called a Dino is really a Manhattan made with Makers without the bitters. Perhaps we should start calling Manhattans bourbontinis. Maybe they would become wildly popular with the trendy croud.:grin:

[TBoner]

I was in Minneapolis this weekend at the Four Points Sheraton. I stopped into the hotel bar expecting, well, not much. Two great microbrews on tap, scanning for more, nothing, nothing, but there, hidden behind overpriced vodka, I spotted WTRB. It was a dusty bottle, WT-01-99, and hadn't been opened. I had two pours, about 3-4 fingers each, for $6.25 apiece. It was my first taste of that batch of Rare Breed. It's not as complex as the current stuff, but still very good, rich, whiskey. And inexpensive at this bar.

[Russellc]

I work at a bar in DC and I am currious as to what the best bottle you have found in a bar is?

Bar at Trezo-Mare restraunt in KC. Pappy 20, eagle rare 17, I havent tripped those guys up yet! While not bourbon, they even have louie tre in there!

russellc

[ggilbertva]

I would be curious to know which Bar in D.C. ipourbourbon works. There are two Bars in DC that specialize in Bourbon and Whisky. First is a restaurant/bar callled Bourbon and on the menu are a number of out of production and hard to find selections, for instance:

Wild Turkey Tribute (US release)

Wild Turkey 17 year

ORVW 15 year

ORVW 10 year

Hirsch 16 year

Hirsch 20 year

Pappy 15, 20 & 23

WTKS

Wathens

Bakers

Bookers

EWSB various years

OFBB various years

Old Fitz

Weller Antique.......

etc, etc.

The bar has an extensive menu but there may be items that are out of stock. For instance, I asked for ORVW 15 and they said it was on back order. I commented that it isn't made any more. The bar tender smiled and said "oh, we know where to get more".

The other bar in D.C. is Old Glory and they claim 80 different bourbons on the menu. I haven't seen it yet so can't say what they have.

[mgilbertva]

At Bourbon in Washington D.C. (Adams Morgan branch), 3 of us dropped by one night recently. I tried the Michter's 10yr Rye Whiskey and Pure Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey XO 10yr. Loved 'em both, although the Michter's was very woody.

At Serafini in Frankfort, KN (recommended by the BT people) I tried the William Larue Weller, Thomas Handy Sazerac, and A. H. Hirsch 16 YO (gold foil, I think).

I had the Handy with their braised pork shank. Amazing combo.

Both of them are great places.

[mgilbertva]

Now I would like to offer some thoughts on the sub-threads.

Bartenders: it's a profession and there's bartenders out there that treat it as such. However, they're hard to find and most restaurants (chains, in particular) do not, as a rule, pay the true professionals better than the rookies. So, the motivation to know your craft might not be as strong in the typical restaurant as it is for some in many other professions.

That being said, there's no excuse for the following:

Another time, at a pricey uptown bar, I asked what whiskeys were available. The bartender said, "We don't have whiskey. But we have bourbon." He then offered Jack Daniel's

[...]

I once got a whiskey with water, then on the rocks, and finally neat (2 wasted pours!), when I asked for it neat in the first place.

The management is just as much at fault in this scenario as the hourly employees for not training them correctly or for even hiring them in the first place. This is not a place that takes their job seriously, unless this was an exception because, e.g., the main staff called out and they had no one else to use except untrained substitutes. So, no, that is not a complex order and it should be handled with the same knowledge you expect when you go to your mechanic and ask him to put 10-30 weight oil in the car.

So why don't more bars carry a decent whiskey selection? Steve had it right:

Quote: Originally Posted by Str8RYE

We are in a free-market and if it sold it would be there, wouldn't it. I can find every vodka everywhere I go because it sells.

I work at a high-end steak house and handle the liquor ordering. Gray Goose vodka alone outsells all whiskeys combined, rail and top shelf.

Friends, we are in a small, and if I may say so, elite minority. (The elite part helps me feel better about my clearly deranged commitment to and expenditures for bourbon :grin:).

[ILLfarmboy]

Now I would like to offer some thoughts on the sub-threads.

Bartenders: it's a profession and there's bartenders out there that treat it as such. However, they're hard to find and most restaurants (chains, in particular) do not, as a rule, pay the true professionals better than the rookies. So, the motivation to know your craft might not be as strong in the typical restaurant as it is for some in many other professions.

In my experience which is mostly in my little corner of the world, Northwestern ILL./ Eastern IA most bartenders, whether in restaurants, hotel bars, small town watering holes and nightclubs, though nightclubs to a lesser extent, are mostly young; early to mid 20's. To them it is a job not a craft. A transitional job; something to earn money for school or till they find out what they want to "be when they grow up". Sad but true.

[mgilbertva]

Well, I wish you luck finding some "real" bartenders out there. I'm fortunate enough to work with a few.

Putting the shoe on the other foot, for a moment, the following is a link to a blog written by a bartender that's hilarious. It's sort-of the mirror image of what we've been complaining about. Very funny and worth a read.

Your Bartender Hates You ... Here's Why

[Pappy's Friend]

I had a disappointment a couple of weeks ago at the Four Seasons Hotel in downtown Houston (my alltime favorite hotel). A buddy and I stopped in the bar to have a drink before dinner. I asked the bar maid what bourbon they had. She responded "what bourbon don't we have?" I asked for any Van Winkle - no go. I then asked for any Weller (yes, I'm partial to wheaters!) - again, no go. I finally settled on Woodford Reserve. What a bummer!

[mgilbertva]

So apparently you were able to answer her question as to what bourbons they don't carry. Two out of three correct ain't bad.

[OscarV]

So apparently you were able to answer her question as to what bourbons they don't carry. Two out of three correct ain't bad.

:lol: :lol: good one!

[jburlowski]

Just came back from a weekend in Louisville... Even though I line in (northern) Kentucky, it was delightful to see a much wider / deeper selection of bourbons at the bars there.

We stayed at the Seelbach Hotel which has an outstanding bar. Some 44+ boubons, including all of the BTAC's and other, harder-to-get pours.

[Bob O.]

Well, I wish you luck finding some "real" bartenders out there. I'm fortunate enough to work with a few.

Putting the shoe on the other foot, for a moment, the following is a link to a blog written by a bartender that's hilarious. It's sort-of the mirror image of what we've been complaining about. Very funny and worth a read.

Your Bartender Hates You ... Here's Why

That is funny...

[Bob O.]

I had a disappointment a couple of weeks ago at the Four Seasons Hotel in downtown Houston (my alltime favorite hotel). A buddy and I stopped in the bar to have a drink before dinner. I asked the bar maid what bourbon they had. She responded "what bourbon don't we have?" I asked for any Van Winkle - no go. I then asked for any Weller (yes' date=' I'm partial to wheaters!) - again, no go. I finally settled on Woodford Reserve. What a bummer![/quote']

Maybe next time she will just politely ask if you were looking for something in particular.

[Gillman]

That was funny, but then too I think in the end most bartenders, and bar owners, take the good with the less good, as anyone must who works in or owns a business. Customers are the lifeblood of any business, let's face it. I try to be a good customer but I suppose I have my moments too (e.g., when I "note" that a real ale is intended to be served clear, as always in England, its home, and not looking like pigs wrestled it in (not my expression, I admit)). It comes with the territory, in other words.

Gary

[ILLfarmboy]

I once overheard a young man who had aperantly just turned 21 atempt to order "whiskey". The bartender took the time to explain: "we have many types; scotch, bourbon, Canadian, blended. I felt bad for him. It was like a scene out of a movie where a young Amish boy explores the big city. But he wasn't Amish and it wasn't a big city.

[BourbonJoe]

We stayed at the Seelbach Hotel which has an outstanding bar. Some 44+ boubons, including all of the BTAC's and other, harder-to-get pours.

The Seelbach has a nice bar but cigar smoking is not allowed. I won't be back no matter how many bourbons they have.

Joe :usflag:

[boone]

Here's the selection at Churchill Downs race track (pretty sucky in numbers) There are many bars. They all looked the same.

Smoking is allowed by the track, paddock, parking lot--outside only.