It's up to us!

[mozilla]

Doesn't oxidation require that oxygen is getting in, and therefore fluids getting out. It can not be a one way door.

Physics aside....I noticed that he mentions nothing of mashbill, yeast, barrels or age. Seems a bit odd that someone of his qualifications would overlook these eliments.

[Gillman]

Jeff, your points may be valid too. But I think part at least of the story is in his reply. And it may vary depending on the specific distillery and its practices. We simply don't know what changed exactly over 30 years in Beam production methods if anything, for example, (on the specifics that count) but he would. And I think it's great that these guys take the time to answer queries such as you sent. They don't have to, of course, but when they do we have to tip the hat. It is only a process of dialogue that you initiated that can start to get answers, but they may not always be up the alleys we think...

Gary

[mozilla]

I'm very glad to have gotten any response from my three letters(the other being ETL). I hope that some others are attempting it as well.

[Dr. François]

Jeff,

Can you post your correspondence with ETL? The other letters were fascinating.

Jeremy

I'm very glad to have gotten any response from my three letters(the other being ETL). I hope that some others are attempting it as well.

[mozilla]

As requested:

Dear Mr.Lee,

Thank you so much for all the effort you have put into the bourbons I have enjoyed. I was able to meet you breifly in early April outside the gift shop. I was on the Hard Hat tour at the time.

My questions for you are:

1. How closely related are the BT and UD mashbills for Old Charter? I know the two distilleries were brothers at one point. Do y'all use the same yeast as what was used in Louisville and BT back then? Didn't you provide yeast for a number of local distilleries while under Schenley and do you still access those libraries?

2. Now that all these new fangled bourbons are hitting the market at high prices, am I, a person who likes medium priced quality bourbon, going to be out in the cold? Will supplies of inexpensive 6,8 and 10 year old bourbon dry up?

3. I brought an empty bourbon barrel home from the Old Fitzgerald dist.(BT). I would like to do an experiment that ages bourbon. My plan was to get some cheap 90proof H.H. Private Cellar and try to make it taste better. Do you have any recomendations for alternatives in proof or variety. Maybe a rye or something? My plan is not set in stone and I can not afford to fill the whole barrel. Just need some guidence from a master.

Thank you for taking the time to answere some of my bourbon questions. If you have an extra DVD's on hand, I would surely like one.

Sincerely

His reply was hand typed, I will try to get it scanned and up soon.

[mozilla]

I feel very fortunate to have had Mr. Lee correspond with me. He is a very interesting fellow and has a style all his own. Some of my questions should have been directed to Gary Gayheart since I believe that he was MD while UD was running things. Hope y'all enjoy:

[Rughi]

I feel very fortunate to have had Mr. Lee correspond with me. He is a very interesting fellow and has a style all his own. Some of my questions should have been directed to Gary Gayheart since I believe that he was MD while UD was running things. Hope y'all enjoy:

He didn't really tell very much, but what a classy fellow he shows himself to be.

[SBOmarc]

Thanks for sharing that letter Jeff.

[Phischy]

Someone should ask the bourbon distilleries to label their bottles "For Medicinial Use" so I can use my flex spending account to make purchases!! Nothing like buying bourbon with pre-tax dollars. ha ha ha!

[whiskeyhatch]

I recently explored the WildTurkeyBourbon.com website and found this quote:

"Wild Turkey is distilled at a very low proof to seal in its flavors. When Wild Turkey is released from the barrel, it is diluted with less water than most bourbons, producing a higher proof products. This leaves you with a taste closer to what was in the barrel."

This was found in the FAQ section under "What makes Wild Turkey different from other bourbons?" It was also found in the 'Special Characteristics' section. I haven't been to this website in a long time so I'm wondering: does anyone know how long WT has been touting this? Did WT have an even lower entry proof/distilled proof in the past? (I saw this question posed in earlier posts but not sure if it was answered.) Jeff Mo., I was also wondering if you wrote to the folks at WT? Anyway, I hope that this practice does not deteriorate as I have never been disappointed by a single WT product. I'll be sending letters soon.

[mozilla]

I have sent emails to Customer Care, all were answered by Earline. IMO, she doesn't know her head from a hole in the ground. So, if anyone has an email for someone else....get to writting.

[mozilla]

Well, this post has been up for a week. Has anyone besides Tboner sent any emails or letters? What did you write about? Have any of the guys up in the North West inquired about allocations and new shipments?

Now is the time to make your voices heard by the distilleries....it doesn't have to be negative input, just input! Let's hear your stories.

[Gillman]

Jeff, we all have our own style and mine has been in person to discuss and urge traditional techniques on the distillery personnel I meet in Kentucky. I have frequently discussed for example issues such as palletized storage, use of naturally seasoned (outdoors I mean) wood and traditional ways of firing barrels, yeast management, and other production issues. I feel it's played its little part together with the effort undertaken by yourself, many others of course, and the existence of SB in general which has had a large impact I think on distillery thinking. People from the companies read SB and other sources of on-line bourbon thinking, they deal with the groups that have formed to buy barrels from them, they meet us at Gazebos, etc. It all goes I think to helping to ensure a traditional product. I used to write to companies online (my preferred initial way, through their websites) but stopped because I rarely got an answer. So I contribute my thoughts here and talk to them directly when I can. As Jim said recently, SB really is a juggernaut and but for its existence I doubt we'd have seen most of the recent specialty releases which form the basis of a lot of current discussion here. So not to discourage anyone from writing, but just want to make the point that there is more than one way to skin the cat.

Gary

[cowdery]

I recently explored the WildTurkeyBourbon.com website and found this quote:

"Wild Turkey is distilled at a very low proof to seal in its flavors. When Wild Turkey is released from the barrel, it is diluted with less water than most bourbons, producing a higher proof products. This leaves you with a taste closer to what was in the barrel."

This was found in the FAQ section under "What makes Wild Turkey different from other bourbons?" It was also found in the 'Special Characteristics' section. I haven't been to this website in a long time so I'm wondering: does anyone know how long WT has been touting this? Did WT have an even lower entry proof/distilled proof in the past? (I saw this question posed in earlier posts but not sure if it was answered.) Jeff Mo., I was also wondering if you wrote to the folks at WT? Anyway, I hope that this practice does not deteriorate as I have never been disappointed by a single WT product. I'll be sending letters soon.

I first interviewed Jimmy Russell in 1992 and he was singing that song then. He described Wild Turkey as an old-fashioned, full-bodied bourbon.

[whiskeyhatch]

Originally posted by cowdery

I first interviewed Jimmy Russell in 1992 and he was singing that song then. He described Wild Turkey as an old-fashioned, full-bodied bourbon.

Thanks Mr. Cowdery. The following may be a bit naive but I guess it's a start. I just sent it to the e-mail address available on the Wild Turkey website:

Hello. My name is Kevin and I am more than a casual bourbon drinker. Besides water, bourbon is basically all I drink. I have tried many different kinds of bourbon from many different distilleries, including 3 of your own (Rye, 101, Rare Breed). I have been very happy with all three of these Wild Turkey products and I look forward to trying all others that are available. Recently, I have become interested in contemporary whiskey production methods and how they differ from those of approximately 25-50 years ago. I noticed that your production methods, in terms of choice of grains, barrel construction and char no., distillation methods, etc. are available on your website. My question, however, is this: has Wild Turkey changed any of these methods throughout your company's history, and if so, why? Also, does Wild Turkey foresee any market forces that may require any future changes in your current production methods? I would like to pose these questions mostly with regard to barrel construction, distillation proof and barrel-entry proof. Thank you in advance for your response. Your continued efforts in supporting traditional methods of whiskey production have made me a solid fan of Wild Turkey bourbon!

[mozilla]

Gary, Tboner, Kevin......anyone else have stories to be mentioned?

[whiskeyhatch]

Here is the reply that I received yesterday (10/10/2007) from the Wild Turkey Consumer Relations Dept., regarding my post #40:

Dear Kevin,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about Wild Turkey Bourbon. We always enjoy hearing from loyal customers.

Wild Turkey Bourbon is one of the few remaining distilleries to bear the mantle of tradition with grace and noble heritage. As Jimmy Russell states “We make Wild turkey Bourbon the old-fashioned way. It’s a totally natural process which takes substantially more time and money, but we believe it’s worth it.â€Â

We appreciate your continued patronage of Wild Turkey Bourbon and hope you continue to enjoy our products.

Best regards,

Earline

Wild Turkey Bourbon

Consumer Relations

[whiskeyhatch]

BTW. I noticed that neither of my questions were addressed.

[Dr. François]

It appears that people in PR departments have figured out how to use the "copy" and "paste" functions on their computers.

[CrispyCritter]

First, and I mean this sincerely, we have to be appreciative that Jerry Dalton took the time to write this reply, and for what he said. He has an advanced degree in distillation science (PhD in fact) and has worked for many years for one of the largest distillers, so he knows a huge amount evidently about bourbon and whether we agree with what he is saying or not his comments deserve the greatest of respect.

He is saying that some of the tastes we are getting from 20 and 30 year old bottles are imparted by oxidation and that the whiskey when new was not that different from what is put in the bottle today.

The implication is, that good as many of the dusties we find are, you can't conclude from that that whiskey was always "better" in the past.

I also recall from earlier days keeping an eye on Scotch-related sites, there was a debate over whether (or how much) whisky aged in the bottle. I recall the typical wisdom was that, if unopened, there was a definite but extremely slow aging - which would fit in with oxidation and the small air space in the bottle. This would also be borne out by the differences between blue wax, gold wax, and gold foil Hirsch - all the same juice that spent different lengths of time in stainless steel.

I can also recall a bottle of Isle of Jura 10yo that I didn't particularly care for - until I revisited the half-full bottle after a long period of time and found that it had noticeably improved. Since then, my advice for Jura 10 is, pour half of it into an empty bottle, seal both half-full bottles, and wait at least eight weeks.

The first release of Baby Saz also needed to breathe a bit to reach its full potential, although it was quite nice even with the first pour.

[jinenjo]

Here is what came bace:

Dear Jeff,

Thanks for your suggestions and comments and please accept my

apologies for not responding sooner.

I've tasted a good many whiskies that have been in the bottle 20 years and longer and can say with some certainty that what it tastes like now is not exactly what it tasted like when it was bottled. Sealed or not, some oxygen will have gotten into the bottle and the subsequent oxidation can introduce notes that simply weren't there in the '80's. I suggest that you taste Basil Hayden's Bourbon. Basil Hayden's is an incredibly smooth and approachable whiskey. I think it may remind you of the OGD of yesteryear. If not, then OGD 114 may give you the more robust flavor that the old Bottled in Bond whiskies did.

Thanks again for writing. It's always good to hear from a fellow bourbon enthusiast.

Best regards,

Jerry

Jerry Dalton

Master Distiller/Senior Director - EH&S/QC

Phone: 502-215-2387

Fax: 502-543-6660

First, I would like to say how Mr. Dalton's generous and thoughtful reply did not go unnoticed. Nevertheless, I have been pondering the ideas of this gentleman for some time now and still remain skeptical. Yet, without proof I cannot dismiss his claim.

I suppose the thing to do would be to taste two Bourbons, say OGD, bottled within a year's time of each other but at the time of the Beam acquisition of ND--one right before, the other right after. Both would be close to 20 years old, so they'd have had ample time to oxidize in the bottle.

Has anyone tried this? Perfect West Coast Study Group material...right after our overdue rye night, Old Forester night, Old Taylor night, Willett 4yo night, Rutledge tribute night....:falling: