Help me find a drink in StL

[Virus_Of_Life]

OK, I hate to create a new thread, but a quick search turned up nothing. I am in St. Louis for the week and then back late next week for another 10+ days. My office is right downtown intersection of Broadway/Washington. Anyway is there a good place to get a drink, and maybe food too, good liquor stores, that any of you know? Dane?

Never realized before I close StL is to Kentucky.... I am having thoughts....

[bluesbassdad]

Mapquest says three hours to Paducah and four hours to Louisville.

Having grown up in southern Illinois when nearly all roads were two lanes and went down main street of every one-horse town along the way, I forget what changes the Interstate Highway System has brought. I lived in Flora, IL, and it was two+ hours to St. Louis.

Here's hoping Dane checks in. Have you sent him a PM? If he's set to receive email notification, you might hear from him a little sooner.

Edit: I just did an Advanced Search for keyword: louis and user: gr8erdane. He has posted many times about places he has taken visitors.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[Virus_Of_Life]

Yeah I PM'd him. I must not be good with search I tried that and didn't turn up much, but I'll try again when I finish "working" for the day...

[NickAtMartinis]

VOL, are you on other message boards as well?

[bluesbassdad]

Here's one useful post.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[cowdery]

Internet wine and spirits, the big online retailer, is right across the river. As is East St. Louis, garden spot of the nation. (Better put a just kidding on that one, especially with what I'm about to say.)

The old French part of downtown St. Louis, over near the Budweiser plant, is an interesting area for restaurants and bars. I will say, however, and remembering that I live in Chicago and consider myself a big city kind of guy, downtown St. Louis can get more than a little scary after dark.

[NickAtMartinis]

Internet wine and spirits, the big online retailer, is right across the river. As is East St. Louis, garden spot of the nation. (Better put a just kidding on that one, especially with what I'm about to say.)

The old French part of downtown St. Louis, over near the Budweiser plant, is an interesting area for restaurants and bars. I will say, however, and remembering that I live in Chicago and consider myself a big city kind of guy, downtown St. Louis can get more than a little scary after dark.

They are very expensive. I remember ording some VW Rye, once the order was complete I was two limbs shy.

[Solomon2]

Take a tour of the Annheuser-Busch plant and enjoy the free samples - especially if they offer you the unpasteurized stuff. Be sure to go to Ted Drews for the best Frozen Custard you've ever tasted.

[Virus_Of_Life]

VOL, are you on other message boards as well?

Uh, no, well I did sign up for Slipknot's but don't think I've ever posted. Honestly, I barely have time keep up with this one (and really I don't) much less anything else. Bottom line though I have met some great people on here that I now consider friends so I will always have a little bit of time for this! :grin:

And oh yeah, I am not leaving this city for my second trip (next week) without see the A-B facility...

[ACDetroit]

If you get a chance to go to Derdorph and Heart's (spelling) they not only have a great selection but serve really good food!

Tony

[bluesbassdad]

Believe it or not, Google helped out with the spelling.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[craigthom]

It's not bourbon or a fancy restaurant, but I second the Ted Drewes recommendation. It will probably be too cold for the full affect, assuming they are still open, but it's still worth a stop.

There's nothing like a summer evening at dusk, the Ted Drewes parking lot full of people standing around eating frozen custard.

[Virus_Of_Life]

Well, I think this has been discussed before but I found a bottle of David Nicholson 1843 today. It says Bottled in Bond distilled by Old Fitzgerald Distillery DSP-KY-16 bottled by ... DSP-MO-16. All that sounds good, but the 06 imprinted on the bottom of the bottle makes me wonder what SW whiskey was doing around still being bottled in 2006? And it looks awful light in color. Also, I am recalling something about this latest iteration not being very good? And if it bottled by Nicholson Distillery Co., it obviously wouldn't be Julian picking this out so....

Anyway I think I'll crack it open here directly and give it a taste, shoot I have three nights till I fly home! And since it'll probably find it's way onto an expense report what the hell.

[Gillman]

Christian, this bottling (or one quite like it) was discussed before on the board and my conclusion from reading those posts was, well, it seems unusual that this could be S-W whiskey since so much time has passed yet the DSP-16 number is on the label, so it must be. Possibly it was a slow-maturing batch, or maybe stored for some reason in very lightly charred barrels. I believe I had this at a party in Louisville last year (Kentucky Bourbon Society) and quite liked it, it struck me as a lighter version of the regular S-W bourbon.

According to Jackson's 1987 World Guide To Whisky, David Nicholson was produced for the Van Winkle family in a private label arrangement. Jackson states that the family of whiskeys associated with S-W (OF, the Weller brands, Cabin Still and David Nicholson) all had similar characteristics. He said (this again at the time) that David Nicholson came in different versions, e.g. one was 90 proof and 7 years old, one was 107 proof and 10 years old.

Altough all issued from the same distillate, I would think though that each had a somewhat different profile.

Gary

[Virus_Of_Life]

Christian, this bottling (or one quite like it) was discussed before on the board and my conclusion from reading those posts was, well, it seems unusual that this could be S-W whiskey since so much time has passed yet the DSP-16 number is on the label, so it must be. Possibly it was a slow-maturing batch, or maybe stored for some reason in very lightly charred barrels. I believe I had this at a party in Louisville last year (Kentucky Bourbon Society) and quite liked it, it struck me as a lighter version of the regular S-W bourbon.

According to Jackson's 1987 World Guide To Whisky, David Nicholson was produced for the Van Winkle family in a private label arrangement. Jackson states that the family of whiskeys associated with S-W (OF, the Weller brands, Cabin Still and David Nicholson) all had similar characteristics. He said (this again at the time) that David Nicholson came in different versions, e.g. one was 90 proof and 7 years old, one was 107 proof and 10 years old.

Altough all issued from the same distillate, I would think though that each had a somewhat different profile.

Gary

Right on as usual Gary, thanks for the info.

It is S-W and just like you said it is lighter edit: I'd call it a very soft and light mouth feel (if that makes any sense?) than many S-W bourbons I've had and honestly is hard for me to taste really well out of a coffee mug, but that was better than the styro/plastic cup option. I get a similar caramel vanilla note in the nose that I described in the ORVW15 as creme brulee and it has a distinct fruity cherry finish I find in some of the KBS Weller12s. All in all for $17.49 it is not the best S-W obviously but not the worst either, this is a pretty darn good pour that I'll feel bad leaving behind, actually I might give to a co-worker to hold the open bottle for me after I leave Saturday for when I return next week. And I think I'll go pick up the other(s) and take them back to the bunker with me!

I just find the BiB odd in that the only S-W BiB of "recent" vintage I can recall is the OF which was replaced at least, what 5, 8, maybe 10 years ago? So how was Sherman pulling it off as recently as '06? Just thinking outloud and probably way off in my dates so....

[Gillman]

Thanks and I should have mentioned also Rebel Yell, i.e., in the 1980's this was part of the group I mentioned all issuing from Stitzel-Weller. Jackson wrote that RY shared the characteristics of OF but perhaps was a little rougher in the finish. So probably each of these whiskeys had its own profile within the overall S-W taste. That Nicolson I had last year (and it looked very similar to the one you found) seemed S-W to me but in a slightly lighter interpretation.

If it is not S-W, this would seemingly result only from some kind of error or the use of older label inventory still on hand but I would think this unlikely. It can be bonded but be older than the 4 years minimum... I always take these things at face value, not to say an error cannot occur for some reason but I doubt it in this case.

Gary

[gr8erdane]

I seriously doubt that what is in the bottle of DN1843 is SW whiskey unless it was tanked years ago and is being bottled in the way Julian is bottling his rye. Not meaning to burst any bubbles here but the price point vs the quantity on the shelves in every St Louis grocery store and liquor store speaks against it.

I did return Christians PM, belatedly but alas he is visiting the downtown area which I tended to mostly avoid for 16 years except for special occasions. Dierdorf and Hart's was a wonderful choice on Market Street for sure, I've mostly eaten at their other location in the County though. Now that I think of Market Street, Christian, you need to take time to go to Union Station and check the lobby of the Hyatt out (Ed appreciated it when I took him) and they have several restaurants (mostly chains) like Landry's Seafood, Hard Rock Cafe, and Houlihan's. A nice treat there is the Fudgery where they make fudge in front of a live audience and put on a show while they are doing it. Great fudge to go with that SW sweet tooth... Ted Drewes doesn't make a difference on the weather, still a must. Not sure if it's still there but somewhere down by the Convention Center/Edward Jones Dome was a small Pub called Dooley's but all I remember was the big thick burgers with scoops of cheddar on top.....One night you need to go to the Hill for Italian Food. I liked Cunetto's but always wanted to try Bruno's Little Italy if it's still open. Usually I just look for a parking spot and then go to the closest restaurant. As far as leaving your bottles, I think if you're coming back to the same Hotel the next week they will probably hold a box for you (if you don't tell them what's in it of course). If you want the best meal and money's no object then Tony's http://www.saucemagazine.com/tonys/ is the place for you. It's THE fine dining restaurant. Great wine list too. If you have a couple of hours to kill and want to explore go to Alton and check out Fast Eddie's Bon-Aire. Cheap food and good. Fat Eddie Burgers, Hot Chix on a stick, and HUGE peal and eat shrimp for a decent price but good luck finding a place to sit if you go in for dinner...

Dang it, I wish I was still there to play tour guide! Was the only time I got out of the house back when...

[Virus_Of_Life]

I seriously doubt that what is in the bottle of DN1843 is SW whiskey unless it was tanked years ago and is being bottled in the way Julian is bottling his rye. Not meaning to burst any bubbles here but the price point vs the quantity on the shelves in every St Louis grocery store and liquor store speaks against it.

I seriously doubted it until I tasted it Dane and not saying I have the best pallette around but it sure seems like SW to me. There was at least one more bottle there, I'll grab it and ship it home and keep it aside for the Sampler table next year so the experts can give it a try.

Thanks for all the other info. The next trip is going to be packed with trying to get the info I need from the Project lead and then heading to Minneapolis one weekend and probably Kentucky another. As much as I'd like to spend some time at home and get my life pieced back together, I am still hoping to be able to work there some in December as well. If that pans out I'll have much more time for getting to some of the places you mentioned. The A-B tour will happen, but other than that I am just not sure...

Shoot, who knows if Portland doesn't pan out next year St. Louis may become home for a while...

[cowdery]

Based on this and a couple of other recent incidents, I'm starting to have my doubts about our bottle dating methodology. Although we know mislabeling happens, it is a violation of federal law and not something producers are likely to do capriciously. Bottle dating has always mostly been a theory. If the bottle date seems to be consistent with other evidence then it tends to support an overall conclusion but if the bottle date seems to conflict with other evidence, I'm inclined to doubt the bottle date. Diageo owns the Stitzel-Weller property. Consequently, they own the DSP-KY-16 designation. Although whiskey is being aged there, nothing is being distilled or bottled there, therefore nothing is produced at DSP-KY-16.

Tankering is doubtful. That's an expensive, chancy and uncommon practice. We know some of the Hirsch/Michters was tankered and so is Julian's rye, but I doubt Luxco has done that with a minor, commodity brand such as David Nicholson. The most likely explanation is old case stock.

Anyway, that's what I know, which is not much.

[gr8erdane]

I'd agree on old case stock Chuck but for the change in bottles. Today's DN1843 comes in the short squat round bottles like the VW 10/109 and the old certainly SW versions came in the tall bottles like current Pappys. While it's certainly possible some old stock has been sitting in a warehouse for some time, the current bottles don't show the aging.

[Rancastle]

Julian tasted this DN squat bottle with DSP-16 on the label a couple years ago, at the gazebo. He said there's no way that is S/W!!!

[cowdery]

Then it's mislabeling. Call the feds.

[asnigro]

I know the response is a bit late, but I was in your same situation about a month ago. I found it very difficult to find a place to get a drink downtown. Unless its right after a cardinals game, teh area was pretty dead for the week I was there. I ended up a night at a bar called the dubliner (Irish bar that might be a chain) that had a decent whiskey/bourbon selection. A place I ate at lunch within walking distance of you is Kitchen K that was quite good.

A site that I use a lot while travelling to find new restaurants and bars is www.yelp.com .