Which younger whiskeys do you appreciate most? And other thoughts on younger whiskey.

[cowdery]

I think a lot of people miss out on a big chunk of the bourbon experience if they confine themselves to the Van Winkles, Kentucky Vintages, Staggs, etc. Anything north of probably 8 years is going to be dominated by wood. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to taste some of the flavors created in the fermentation process and harvested in the distillation process, you need to drink something younger.

Most of the leading brands are in the four-to-six year range, which is what I would call young. The only things younger are the 36-monthers, which are all bottom shelf and generally too young. So while there certainly are differences between Maker's Mark and Jim Beam white label, for example, or Wild Turkey 101 and Jack Daniel's black label, the difference isn't so much age as it is other things.

NAS bottlings are the bulk of what's sold but probably not the bulk of what's consumed among SB.com participants.

NAS bottlings are also the best way to taste distillery character.

Even though Very Old Barton does declare itself to be 6-years-old, some of the NASs, such as Maker's Mark and Old Forester, are closer to six than to four, I would put Evan Williams into that group too. JB and JD, on the other hand, are probably four years and a day.

Bonds are part of this discussion too, since most standard bonds are in that 4-to-6 range, but with bonds everything has to be the same age.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for, Mark, but those are some thoughts.

[nor02lei]

Even though Very Old Barton does declare itself to be 6-years-old, some of the NASs, such as Maker's Mark and Old Forester, are closer to six than to four, I would put Evan Williams into that group too. JB and JD, on the other hand, are probably four years and a day.

When I did visit the B-F distillery in Louisville last year Chris Morris told me that OF 86 was 5 years old and the 100 proof was 7-9 years old.

Leif

[Gillman]

This may be but still, the bourbons noted by Chuck represent a classic flavor profile and should not be missed by anyone seeking a traditional palate in bourbon. The term younger is relative since these bourbons (at anywhere from 4-8 or even 9 years in some cases) would have been considered well-aged 100 years ago.

I just bought some OF 100 and found its distillery character quite marked. Distillery character is evident too in WR in a particularly appealing balance in a recent bottle sampled.

Many bottles older than 8-9 years are of great interest (e.g., Buffalo Trace at times, many others) but I think an exclusive focus on this area would miss much.

Gary

[NickAtMartinis]

I think a lot of people miss out on a big chunk of the bourbon experience if they confine themselves to the Van Winkles, Kentucky Vintages, Staggs, etc. Anything north of probably 8 years is going to be dominated by wood. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to taste some of the flavors created in the fermentation process and harvested in the distillation process, you need to drink something younger.

Most of the leading brands are in the four-to-six year range, which is what I would call young. The only things younger are the 36-monthers, which are all bottom shelf and generally too young. So while there certainly are differences between Maker's Mark and Jim Beam white label, for example, or Wild Turkey 101 and Jack Daniel's black label, the difference isn't so much age as it is other things.

NAS bottlings are the bulk of what's sold but probably not the bulk of what's consumed among SB.com participants.

NAS bottlings are also the best way to taste distillery character.

Even though Very Old Barton does declare itself to be 6-years-old, some of the NASs, such as Maker's Mark and Old Forester, are closer to six than to four, I would put Evan Williams into that group too. JB and JD, on the other hand, are probably four years and a day.

Bonds are part of this discussion too, since most standard bonds are in that 4-to-6 range, but with bonds everything has to be the same age.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for, Mark, but those are some thoughts.

Thanks, Chuck. That's some very good information.

It's funny, looking back on my bourbon tasting throughout the past 1 1/2 years or so, I don't have much bourbon experience below 7 years. The only bourbon that comes to mind is the ND OGD BIB which I like. Other than that, everything has been North of six years. Hence, my interest in this thread. I'd love to save my money and purchase some solid, young bourbon. Sometimes, as a society get the impression that because it's expensive it's good quality. That's not always the case, especially in bourbon.

[doubleblank]

Like Squire, I have EW Black label sitting out in the kitchen. I never hesitate to grab it and use while cooking or if someone wants a tall cocktail. I also occasionally have one over ice when grilling outside when its warm....EW Black on ice seems to taste best during hot weather and I'm outdoors. That "mentholyptus" note makes it a refreshing warm weather drink.

Randy

[cowdery]

When I did visit the B-F distillery in Louisville last year Chris Morris told me that OF 86 was 5 years old and the 100 proof was 7-9 years old.

Leif

What Chris probably said is that some of the whiskey in OF Signature is 7-9 years old, not that all of it is.

[Pharaoh]

Younger as in cheap?

If simply young, probably Blanton's.

[squire]

Though not cheap the young Grand dad BIB has a very rich, round and deep flavor combined with a tremendous nose.

Regards,

Squire

[Route 66]

One young bourbon I really liked was the basic Ancient Age. It has the cream colored label with the black and red script. It wasn't a super deal but still certainly worth it as it cost ~$10 for a 750ml. Nor was it refined, complex or super smooth. But, it just had something to it that was quite satisfying in balance, taste and (slight lack of)smoothness, which like a Harley is a necessary requirement of bourbon right?.

For reference, the sticker on the neck had 36 months printed on it. Maybe that's what gave me its slightly different experience and appeal. As others have noted, maybe it's the young age yielding a taste with less wood dominating.

[fussychicken]

So we all know that price, age, and "super-premiumness" go hand in hand in today's market. However lets say that in a parallel universe "younger" whiskey was appreciated by the masses as the best whiskey has to offer. What would could be done to make today's 4-6 year whiskeys better? What would you do different? Blending? Very careful warehouse management? Different head and tail splits? Different mash bills?

I guess my point is that younger whiskeys appear to lack some of the craftsmanship aspect compared to the upper tier whiskeys. For instance, barrels aren't carefully selected. The batches are huge. The "honey" barrels and select warehouse spaces are saved for special older bottlings. Could we make these younger whiskeys even better?

[jburlowski]

I here what you're saying...

I love (some) older / select bottlings as much as anyone. But we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that there are more, and generally much better, bourbons all across the price spectrum today than any other time in history.

[Rughi]

...lets say that in a parallel universe "younger" whiskey was appreciated by the masses as the best whiskey has to offer. What would could be done to make today's 4-6 year whiskeys better? What would you do different? Blending? Very careful warehouse management? Different head and tail splits? Different mash bills?

A parallel universe is too abstract. In keeping with the old saw "if the people lead, the leaders will follow" some of us are actively putting together deals to test this question. So far, Doug, the East Bay Study Group and Jake have each found a way to interest retailers, distributors and one enlightened producer to make it possible to sample 4-6 year old Young Bourbons (from Willett's) in their straight-from-the-barrel state.

We have sampled many barrels to find a few that can stand on their own, but at this young age there are more than a few rough edges. I would love to see the next step be careful vattings of exceptional barrels.

I see no reason that young bourbons can't be a prestige product; Blanton's is certainly not a long-aged product (younger or a similar age with Buffalo Trace, most Old Charters, Elmer T Lee, most Wellers, and any number of other BT products that cost half as much) that owes much of its success to careful selection and the bit of youthfulness it retains.

Young bourbons are almost solely marketed as cheap product at this point, but enthusiasts have dragged producers into offering more barrel proof and other prestige products in the last few years - we can drag them further along if we support their efforts with our wallets. Conversely, if we heap abuse on younger products for not being bottom-shelf cheap (notably, one Birthday Bourbon was treated as a rip-off by many on this forum because it was younger than the others),then we will reinforce the common conception that old = worth more money.

Roger

[barturtle]

We have sampled many barrels to find a few that can stand on their own, but at this young age there are more than a few rough edges. I would love to see the next step be careful vattings of exceptional barrels.

Roger

At 4-6 years old and barrel proof & unfiltered, well you have a slightly younger Booker's. With smaller batch sizes and more careful selections, you should end up with a damn fine product.

[cowdery]

Four Roses offers another example of something that is very possible which no one else is doing, which is make several different whiskeys, deliberately developing very profound flavors, that might not be appealing alone, but combined (we never say "blended" when discussing straight whiskey) could produce a whole that is much greater than the sum of its parts. In other words, Gillmanization. This is done in some very limited ways now but only Four Roses, with both yellow label and small batch, comes close to the true Gillmanization model.

[jburlowski]

I've notice a different label on the standard FR. It includes, IIRC, a quote from Jim Rutledge.

I assume this is the same whiskey with a new label... am I correct?

[cowdery]

Some people think the recipe has changed, others don't. Nothing official either way from FR.

[Martian]

HH BIB, JTS Brown BIB, and JW Dant BIB are all HH products. Are these the same whiskey?

[cowdery]

Yes, in that they all came from the same mashbill, same still, same warehouses, etc. No, in that each at least theoretically has its own brand profile. Yes, in that with such small brands that "theoretical" brand profile likely goes out the window. They probably all share a profile qnd quite probably are all bottled at the same time, i.e., the "batch" is the HH BIB family. That's not a definitive answer, but I would say there isn't much if any difference.

[Martian]

Thanks, Chuck.

[Old Lamplighter]

Definitely would not say that I am the 'refined' type, but, as I've gotten older and more experienced in terms of bourbon exposure through the years, I just cannot find a younger expression of just about any label that satisfies. A couple of years ago I decided to go back and try some of the labels of my youth harkening back to a time when the ole tastebuds were less discriminating, the blood was hotter and the wallet was lighter (some might call it a bourbon mid-life crisis). For whatever reason, none of them appealed to me at all and none were over 4-6 years of age.

Bottom line for me: nothing wrong with any of the younger whiskeys and I appreciate them for what they are - and am thankful they are around.......it saves the older bourbon for old dudes like me!

[craigthom]

HH BIB, JTS Brown BIB, and JW Dant BIB are all HH products. Are these the same whiskey?

If they are the same age (NAS usually means 4yo), then they probably are. I asked if the EW BIB I got in Georgia was the same as the (4yo) HH BIB and was told it was. I'd guess that the others are, too.

[JamesH007]

I also think the Saz Rye is one of the best younger whiskeys I have had; while still lighter tasting it is very well balanced with some great bold flavors and very smooth. I also like all 4 roses as a younger whiskey, especially the single barrel (although this may be a bit older, its under 10 yo)