How much Hirsch 16 yr old is left?

[GreggB]

Anybody know how many bottles of Hirsch 16 yr old are still available? I have seen where the price has been shooting up, and was wondering if that means we are really nearing The End.

[Old Lamplighter]

Just a guess: In general, we are not as close to the end as the retailers would like us to believe. However, in some areas/states, it is already gone and perhaps next to impossible to find more if you are in a state (such as mine) that forbids 'importation'. Therefore, if 'reasonable' (under $100 IMO) and you find yourself in one of those states like me, it might behoove you to buy it while you can. For the fortunate others, I understand it is still available at places like Binny's. So, it's still out there. You just have to work a little harder now to hunt it down. I am planning to purchase a couple tomorrow if the price is still around $90 where I last saw it at a certain store. If they have raised the price over $100, I am out of the hunt. Another retailer I passed thru last week had it for $150. I am told it has reached asking prices close to $200 in some parts of the country.

IMHO, unless someone decides to make an attempt to go all-out and buy it up quickly thereby shrinking the market more rapidly, we are still a year or so away from seeing it disappear completely. Of course, there is always ebay but be prepared to pay a premium as time moves forward.

[MikeK]

I recall reading an article in the last year or so where Henry? Preiss discussed the Hirsch stock. He stated that only about half of what he had bottled as gold foil had been released. His intention was to release the remaining half over the next 'x' years, a little at a time, increasing the price each time.

+1 for honesty.

-1 for gouging.

Yes, it is a free market, and price/demand even out. But I also applaud those companies that charge much less than they could get away with, presumably to do the right thing and get the whiskey into the hands of those who would enjoy it vs. those who just want to collect it.

For instance, I can buy a Van Winkle '13'yo Rye for $35 (which is really about 18yo) or a Sazerac 18yo rye for $45 (which is really 20+ yo). At the same time there are pleanty of 20+ year old ryes out there far north of $100.

Thank you Julian and BT.

[CrashRiley]

I have almost 24 bottles in stock, and I'm told that my distributor has more if I want it. It's a s-l-o-w seller, though, I'm happy to do a generous discount to SB.com folks who want it, I have too many other Bourbons that need shelf space.

[Pharaoh]

Is it just me or does anyone else find that the last gold foil bottles taste like, ummm... other whiskey has been supplemented? Sure it's still good whiskey, but that was some serious oxidation process if the sudden sharper profile is really a "natural" occurrence.

JMHO

[jwrussell]

I can say that the local distributor had multiple cases available, but at ~$139/bottle I wasn't about to have my local store bring any in for me.

[TNbourbon]

Here's a 4-year-old exchange I had with Henry Preiss, the Hirsch owner:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=26032&postcount=19

I figure it's pretty much all in distribution by now. Or, at least, whatever isn't doesn't amount to many cases.

[CrashRiley]

I can say that the local distributor had multiple cases available, but at ~$139/bottle I wasn't about to have my local store bring any in for me.

Still a bargain compared with what my distributor is asking for it now. If I went out and bought more of it today, I'd have to charge $188.99/bottle for it. :bigeyes:

[cowdery]

When I spoke to the Preiss folks a little more than a year ago, they had 500 cases in their inventory. It probably will continue to be available, but the price will go nowhere but up.

Binny's no longer has it on their web site but I bought a bottle off the shelf at their Clark Street store about a month ago, for $79.99, and it wasn't the last one they had.

My sample size is small but I haven't had a bad bottle. As for the integrity of the product, all of the people who have handled it since its creation in 1989 have protected its integrity and I have no reason to suspect Preiss hasn't as well.

In some ways the brand was badly managed, but in fairness to all of its proprietors, the idea of a truly super-premium, long-aged bourbon from a famous, defunct distillery was kind of new, so they were making it up as they went along. My suspicion is that it has always been profitable but never earned its proprietors a lot of money because it was such low volume.

In 2003, Preiss had everything that was left bottled and it came to 2,500 cases, more than all of the previous bottlings combined. Early batches may have had some flavor variation since they were from selected barrels, but everything since 1993 has come from stainless steel. That's most of the 16-year-old and all of the gold foil. So, there has been a lot more of the gold foil around than there ever was anything else and that, with the increasingly rare weird exception, is everything that is still at retail.

Regardless of how much there actually is out there now, it is only going to get more rare and more expensive.

[shyster512]

I was told pretty much the same thing from my store. He had several bottles for sale at $134.99, but told me when he replaced this stock, he would have to charge $199.00. He told me the bottlles supposedly out there, but I have forgotten that number. It is limited, but with that high price tag, it should be around awhile. $200 per bottle should really limit its sale. While I find it enjoyable, I wll not pay any more than current price, and in fact find it difficult to pull the trigger on another bottle at $135.

[NickAtMartinis]

but everything since 1993 has come from stainless steel. That's most of the 16-year-old and all of the gold foil.

Chuck, do you happen to know how much of an affect, if any, the steel has on the flavor of the bourbon?

[TnSquire]

I saw a bunch today for 129.99

I saw some the other day for 79.99.

I saw some a month ago for 29.99. A bottle of it was my thanksgiving bourbon. It reminds me of Old Overholt.

[TroyM]

Over here Hirsch 16 ranges from $150 Aus to $195 Aus. All gold foil. Doubt very much if any of the wax varients would have ever hit our shores.

[cowdery]

Chuck, do you happen to know how much of an affect, if any, the steel has on the flavor of the bourbon?

Zero. The whole idea of dumping it into stainless is to get it away from the wood to stop it from getting any woodier. In stainless it is pretty much the same as it is in the bottle, inert.

[cowdery]

Over here Hirsch 16 ranges from $150 Aus to $195 Aus. All gold foil. Doubt very much if any of the wax varients would have ever hit our shores.

They probably did hit your shores but 15 years ago or more, when they were made.

[Rughi]

...In stainless it is pretty much the same as it is in the bottle...

Yep, but does it change over time?

We know that whiskey changes in a glass left out overnight and a bottle with a goodly amount of airspace will change if left for a period of years. When I asked about BT's stainless tanks I was told that they have no special measure to prevent an airspace - so if the tank is half empty, it's half airspace, and allows for a lot of interaction.

Roger

PS - I think Chuck's use of the term "inert" was quite on the spot. Dictionary.com references use phrases like "sluggish by habit or nature" or "not readily reactive with other elements" to define inert. Inert doesn't mean unchangeable, but rather slow to change.

[NickAtMartinis]

Zero. The whole idea of dumping it into stainless is to get it away from the wood to stop it from getting any woodier. In stainless it is pretty much the same as it is in the bottle, inert.

Thanks. I'm still a bit surprised that there is no flavor carry-over.

[bigtoys]

I have a bottle open (I'm drinking some now) and one bottle bunkered from when I was told it wouldn't be available anymore--that was about a year ago. I'm pretty sure I saw about 6 bottles the other night at Sam's HP.

All I can say is: Makes Pappy 20 at around $90 a pretty good buy.

[Pharaoh]

These are the sorts of things that only raise further questions.

When I spoke to the Preiss folks a little more than a year ago, they had 500 cases in their inventory. It probably will continue to be available, but the price will go nowhere but up.

Let me state unequivocally, I have NO doubt your account of the events / discussion is accurate, Chuck.

Take a look at what Henry Preiss said June 15, 2004 (at 5:29PM to be exact):

Originally there was about 54,000 liters and over the years we marketed the brand and up to today there are about 200 cases left and everything is now bottled and in special storage.

So about 300 more cases have materialized since then. There's been a couple of math problems surrounding the whiskey IMHO and here's another one.

[cowdery]

Actually, I misspoke, having written that from memory. Here is exactly what I reported in Volume 9 Number 6 of The Bourbon Country Reader in October of 2006:

"The remaining Hirsch bourbon, the stash that had been tanked in Cincinnati, went [to Buffalo Trace] too. In 2003, Preiss had the last of it bottled by Buffalo Trace. It came to 2,500 cases, more than all of the previous production combined. That is the 16-year-old, 91.6 proof, gold capsule product that is in stores now. When we spoke with Steve Fox in last August, they had about 1,000 cases left."

Steve Fox is National Sales Manager for Preiss Imports. I'm not sure why I remembered it as 500, but that's entirely my mistake.

[TnSquire]

I think its a good $50.00 to $60.00 bottle of bourbon.

[NickAtMartinis]

I think its a good $50.00 to $60.00 bottle of bourbon.

Agreed. Some of the prices out there today are outrageous.

[cas]

I can find it in a few shops around Ann Arbor, but the price is just over $200.

I paid about $50 for a bottle of the blue wax in Myrtle Beach about 4 years ago. And I left a few bottles on the shelf. They were sitting next to the $70 bottle of 20 year old...

Craig

[GreggB]

I just talked to someone at Cork n' Bottle in Covington, Kentucky (the old owners of the Hirsch bourbons) and they do not have any in stock.

I have seen it here in St. Louis for $85, so I guess I should grab some before the infestation of $150 or $200 prices reaches St. Louis.

[cowdery]

The price jump in some places probably represents what the stores are being charged when they reorder. The stores where it's still under $100 are probably still working through existing inventory.