J.T.S. Brown BIB question

[felthove]

Picked up a bottle yesterday and on the back it says "distilled by Stonegate Distillery, DSP KY 31." Doesn't mention its age.

I know this is bargain stuff, but since it's from DSP KY 31 does it mean it's anything special? I hear people on this board talking about that stuff being superior to new HH bottlings. It was only around $15. Thanks,

Ron

[cowdery]

I happen to like JTS Brown BIB quite a bit, but I'm skeptical about the stuff in stores now really being DSP KY 31. I'm skeptical because DSP KY 31 produced its last more than 10 years ago and JTS Brown is likely not much older than 4 years. Either the DSP KY 31 JTS Brown in stores now is mis-labeled or old case stock. Both are possible.

I consider JTS Brown a good, inexpensive Heaven Hill bourbon, but I wouldn't buy it on the basis of hoarding some DSP KY 31. I also would not say DSP KY 31 whiskey is necessarily superior to whiskey from Heaven Hill's more recent sources. It's all good.

[squire]

I wouldn't be concerned about its origins, its a Heaven Hill product and a good one, its virtues being outstanding quality for the price. The same stuff is sold locally as JW Dant BIB and I've favored it for years for the reasons mentioned above. Traditional products versatile in their use, I believe anyone who likes a rye recipe bourbon would like either of these.

Squire

[craigthom]

I've got a bottle of JTS Brown BIB that was distilled at what is now Buffalo Trace and was bottled at S-W. Who owned it then? Is it pretty much the same?

[cowdery]

I've got a bottle of JTS Brown BIB that was distilled at what is now Buffalo Trace and was bottled at S-W. Who owned it then? Is it pretty much the same?

So the label says it was distilled at DSP-KY-9 and bottled at DSP-KY-16?

That's a puzzler.

Off the top of my head, I would say the brand went from being produced by Brown's grandson at what is now Four Roses, to being produced there and at other Seagram's facilities by Seagram's, to being owned and produced by Heaven Hill, which has had it for at least 20 years.

There was a brief period, about 20 years ago, when Stitzel-Weller and Buffalo Trace had the same owner, but that's still doesn't put JTS Brown into its stable.

As for how similar it would be, JTS Brown has pretty much always been a commodity brand, which means the most any of its makers has tried to do is make it an acceptable standard rye-based bourbon.

[felthove]

Whatever the story, I've been using it as a house pour all week to make Manhattans and mix with ginger beer or 7-up. Nice stuff for the price.

[Rughi]

So the label says it was distilled at DSP-KY-9 and bottled at DSP-KY-16?

Chuck,

My database of Cecil's book gives RD 2 and 113 to what is now Buffalo Trace. Sometimes he didn't list every RD used for each site, so should I add RD 9 to my notes for that distillery as well?

Cecil lists the Kessler plant in Lair, Harrison County as RD 9 post-prohibition (but also the John Wathen plant in Lebanon, Marion County).

Roger

[T47]

The same stuff is sold locally as JW Dant BIB and I've favored it for years for the reasons mentioned above. Traditional products versatile in their use, I believe anyone who likes a rye recipe bourbon would like either of these.

Squire

JTS Brown and JW Dante BIB are the same Bourbon?

[craigthom]

Mine is Dant, not JTS Brown. My mistake. It was distilled at DSP-KY 113 and bottled at DSP-KY 16.

I wish all bourbons were required to list their distilleries. It would make life so much simpler for us.

[cowdery]

Forget that 9 for BT. It's from the current TTB permit list, which must be for some other purpose. I'm not sure what DSP BT currently uses, but I'm sure someone here will know.

Dant is, of course, a whole different story. Schenley, which owned BT, bought J. W. Dant (RD #47) in 1953. Cecil should know, because he was working there at the time. He says the label was sold to Heaven Hill "recently," but I'm going to say it was no more recent than 20 years ago.

[craigthom]

Might be slightly less than 20 years, since my bottle has, I think, an "88" on the bottom.

That Schenley owned the name explains why it was distilled at DSP-KY 113 but not why it was bottled at S-W. Maybe UD owned the name in between and they were using whiskey already distilled.

[boone]

Dant is, of course, a whole different story. Schenley, which owned BT, bought J. W. Dant (RD #47) in 1953. Cecil should know, because he was working there at the time. He says the label was sold to Heaven Hill "recently," but I'm going to say it was no more recent than 20 years ago.

I think, HH bought the J.W. Dant from U.D. in 1993.

[cowdery]

There was a brief period, shortly before BT was sold to Ferdie Falk, when BT and SW had the same owner. The whiskey probably was distilled at BT but, for some reason (probably because they had the room), it was aged at SW and, thus, bottled there.

[TNbourbon]

...I'm not sure what DSP BT currently uses,..

Cases of BT product still carry a DSP-KY-113 designation, the same one used by George T. Stagg/Ancient Age for many years previously.

[squire]

Same? I donno. Same stable, different label. I suspect there are some regional label preferences and that more than a specific flavor profile is what drive the brands. The bottle of Dant I have at hand states it was distilled and bottled by DSP 31. Also, there is 06 cast into the bottom of the bottle.

Squire

[barturtle]

I keep meaning to pick up a bottle of the Dant BIB to go in a future HH Bond roundup, but man, that stuff's pricey! I mean it's more than VROHH! A good 50% pricier than other NAS HH BIBs!

Yes, I did just complain that a $14 bottle is expensive. LOL!

[boone]

The error's on the DSP #s have been corrected.

If you want to get a date of the bottling look on the bottom of the bottle for the bottle date. This will be a very close (yearly) reference to when the product was put into that bottle. We store very little empty glass, it's practically loaded from the truck to the lines. If you buy by the case the date will be on the money side of the case.

Same? I donno. Same stable, different label. I suspect there are some regional label preferences and that more than a specific flavor profile is what drive the brands. The bottle of Dant I have at hand states it was distilled and bottled by DSP 31. Also, there is 06 cast into the bottom of the bottle.

Squire

[cowdery]

Regardless of where it was made, it's mighty tasty for a young bourbon. One of my favorites. Just opened a new bottle last night. Minty.

[squire]

Thanks Bettye Jo, I really don't care where its made or bottled just keep it coming as it is one of my favorites.

Tim that price seems high to me. I haven't checked the prices in LA recently, say the last month or so, but it seems to me $10.39 is closer to what I saw the last time I noticed.

Squire

[cowdery]

In September, I paid $8.69 at Liquor Barn in Louisville.