Let's Talk About Gin

[RoyalWater]

I had never tried gin before today. I was aware that many gins were made from juniper berries and that the beverage was invented as a medicine. I knew these brands by name: Calvert, Seagram's, Gilbey's, Beefeater, Boodle's, Burnett's. I finally developed enough curiosity to try this liquor. I went down to my usual liquor store and looked around long enough that the manager started to watch me, picking up bottles and reading labels etc. I never buy off the bottom shelf, and I don't buy anything expensive in a class I've never tried. I settled on Boodle's ($16.20 in Ohio). Upon opening the bottle the first aroma to hit me was reminiscent of menthol. After pouring into the glass I picked up a powerful dose of coriander. The taste was mildly menthol, strongly coriander, and faintly citrus. I like it, but perhaps the coriander is a bit strong; much like the one other coriander heavy beverage i recall, Leinenkugel's Wheat beer, the coriander remained long after all other flavors had faded. I noticed a few of the bottles spoke of coriander accents, and am wondering if this is common to gin? I like coriander, but it is a powerful spice best used sparingly. Is this characteristic of coriander strong to the point of bludgeoning the pallete common to gin? Educate me on this beverage.

[ratcheer]

Good questions.

First, Boodles is known as a pretty good gin, but I have never personally had it.

The primary flavoring of gin is usually juniper. Note that gin is not made of juniper, it is simply flavored with the berries. Other than the various botanicals used to flavor gin, it is basically just grain neutral spirits, i.e., ethanol and water.

Most of the other botanicals are usually used in very small amounts. I am surprised that the coriander was so pronounced, to you. It seems that you may be especially sensitive or tuned in to that flavor.

My favorite gins are Beefeater and Bombay. I also enjoy Tanqueray. Among domestic brands, I enjoy Seagram's and Sir Robert Burnett's.

Tim

[robbyvirus]

Boodles is indeed a fine gin. I find that gins can really vary in taste, no doubt due to different amounts of juniper and other botanicals, so if you like Boodles, I'd urge you to try a few others. It's been a while since I've had Boodles, so I don't remember the coriander, but this is not something I've been able to taste in any recent gins I've had, so this seems unusual to me. Maybe it is indeed unique to Boodles.

I really like gin a lot, but having said that I'd never drink it straight. Try making a gin martini, and don't skimp on the vermouth (I prefer anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 vermouth, not just a "wave of the bottle" as has been become the trend in recent years). Try a gin and tonic. Try gin with club soda and lime (a gin rickey...one of my favorite simple pleasures). Enjoy, and let us know how it goes!

[cowdery]

You can parse gin a couple of different ways. Most of your inexpensive gins are U.S.-made and are simply grain neutral spirit (i.e., vodka) to which a flavoring concentrate is added. Seagram's is one of the few U.S.-made gins that uses an infusion of the flavorings substances, i.e., botanicals, rather than a flavor house concentrate. The imports, mostly from England but also from Scotland, the Netherlands and some other places, also use the more costly infusion process.

I'm not real familiar with Boodles. It's an old British name, but I think what you get in the U.S. is U.S.-made and made with a flavoring concentrate. That assumption is supported by the price you quoted. The major UK-bottled gins, like Bombay and Beefeater, are like $20 a bottle here and, knowing Ohio, I'd guess at least $25 there, but that's where you want to be if you want to experience the real deal. U.S.-made gins are all pretty similar and similarly undistinguished.

[robbyvirus]

I found this on Boodles, at the web address below:

"Boodles (45.5% alcohol)

Not as widely known in America as it should be, this superior gin is named after the London club and was reputedly to be the favorite gin of its most famous member, Winston Churchill. Its distinctive floral nose and palate with lingering juniper have long made it one of the most popular gins in the United Kingdom. Boodles is currently made by Joseph E. Seagram & Sons."

The article also reviews a few other gins they like, such as Beefeater and Bombay Sapphire

http://www.forbes.com/wineandfood/2006/03/13/diageo-allied-gin-cx_np_0314featC_LS.html

[CrispyCritter]

For a gin and tonic, gimlet, or Negroni, I tend to go with Tanqueray or Plymouth. In a martini, Plymouth, Bombay Sapphire or Hendrick's. For a Bicyclette (2 oz. gin, 3/4 oz. red vermouth, 1/2 oz. St.-Germain liqueur, 2 dashes peach bitters), Plymouth or Hendrick's.

I've had one Dutch genever (Boomsma Oude), and I've always had it neat, normally with the bottle kept in the freezer. At room temperature, it reminds me more of a whisky than a gin, but the "gin-ness" comes out when it's ice-cold.

[nydistiller]

It makes perfect since that you should pick up corriander in a big way. Most gin recipes call for behind juniper, the next biggest flavoring herb is coriander, most call for it to be a third of the recipe.

[smokinjoe]

As many others seem to do as well, I go with Bombay Sapphire for Martinis. Not shy with the vermouth either. Been using Jeff's idea of throwing a bit of Worcestshire sause in there for savoriness. :iagreejeff: Three big, fat, feta stuffed olives, and you got yourself a meal. But, for gin & tonics, I love the flavor of Citadelle. :yum: Loads of flavor that really holds up well with the tonic. Not mentioned much here when gin is discussed, but I really do like it. It's distilled from wheat, and has 19 botanicals in its recipe. Including Cardamom from India!! I just can't get enough Cardamom!! Actually, don't even know what Cardamom is, but if it helps make Citadelle as good as I think it is, then it's OK by me.

Cheers!

JOE

[cowdery]

Boodles, then, is probably coming out of Lawrenceburg, Indiana, too. Seagram's is no more so I'll assume Boodles is owned by Diageo now. If all that's the case, then Boodles Gin along with Seagram's Gin are probably the best bets in an inexpensive domestic gin, because at least they infuse.

Inspired by this thread, I had a Tanqueray martini last night (M&R dry vermouth), with two olives because I was living on the edge (garnishes in even numbers are supposed to be bad luck). Tanqueray has a strong lime note, as does the Tanqueray Ten.

Many of us believe American colonial rye whiskey was as much an unflavored genever as it was descended from Celtic whiskeys.

[TBoner]

I can vouch for Seagram's Distillers Reserve on the low end of the price range. However, I'm partial to Booker's and Beefeater, generally, for most gin drinks. As for coriander, I'd avoid Tanq 10, Bombay Sapphire, and Citadelle (all of which I like) if you're not a coriander fan. Many citrus-accented gins use coriander to push forward the lime/orange/grapefruit flavor even more.

Chuck, I have read some of your posts on the genever-American whiskey link before. I definitely note some connection between oude genever (current production) and young bourbon (current production), so I see where you're coming from. Have you tasted Kensington oak-aged gin? It's pricey, and I haven't found it in my area, but I'm intrigued. Also, how familiar are you with the gin-like but caraway-dominated aquavit category? I've had only a couple, including Linie, which sees barrel time. Obvious oak flavors in common with bourbon, but there seems to be something else, an absence of the spirity flavor that I find in some Canadians. I know many gins and some aquavits are distilled to a high proof, but perhaps it's the lack of several distillations that allows some grain character to come across?

[bigtoys]

Used to drink a lot of Tanqueray, then Tanq 10. Recently have switched to Bombay Sapphire and Hendricks.

[mier]

Many of us believe American colonial rye whiskey was as much an unflavored genever as it was descended from Celtic whiskeys.

[cowdery]

I don't find aquavit gin-like, the difference probably being that caraway is a flavor, without much aroma, whereas with gin the aroma can seem more important than the taste. I'm most familiar with Aalborg Aquavit, which is not aged.

I haven't seen the Kensington.

Seagram's Gin actually sees a little barrel time, about three months, hence the very slight yellow hue.

Certainly all of the major gins, whether UK- or US-bottled, are based on neutral spirits and have no grain character. Every genever I've had has definite grain character and the grain usually is rye, which is how I make the connection with early whiskey-making on this continent.

This is not something I ever seen documented. It's something Gary Gillman, myself, and a few others have cooked up.

[Martian]

Seagram's is my favorite inexpensive gin. I especially liked the grapefruit flavored version. Very refreshing over ice on a hot summer evening. Unfortunately, it's no longer being made. I guess I was the only one drinking it.

[Caradog]

Boodles, then, is probably coming out of Lawrenceburg, Indiana, too. Seagram's is no more so I'll assume Boodles is owned by Diageo now. If all that's the case, then Boodles Gin along with Seagram's Gin are probably the best bets in an inexpensive domestic gin, because at least they infuse.

...

Many of us believe American colonial rye whiskey was as much an unflavored genever as it was descended from Celtic whiskeys.

I believe Boodles to be in the Pernod Ricard stable now - I got a bottle for $15 up in Vermont, but it tends to sell at more of a premium here in NYC. It was the preferred gin of Travis McGee, so that's good enough for me.

Interesting about the gin/whiskey connections -- I got a bottle of Bluecoat in PA, a small-batch pot still gin out of Philly. It is so different than the London style - the botanicals are there in the nose, but way in the back on the palate. It's real grainy - reminded me of white dog off a continuous still.

[Vange]

When I did my gin article I tried them all room temperature neat. It was quite an interesting tasting!

Anyway, off the top of my head:

Plymouth: SUPER smooth, SO easy drinking its scary.

Tanq 10: WAY better than Tanq regular. Pine all over the place. More polished.

Sapphire: Very solid, as always!

Hendricks: cucumber cucumber cucumber, nice off the beaten path gin. ive turned many into hendricks fans at my bar.

Boomsa Oude: aged gin, it smells like whisky. it has a bit of a bite. i cant see it being a typical martini gin. maybe on the rocks? maybe a different cocktail would compliment this genever gin? experimentation needed.

Old Raj: Now THIS was a really great gin. The most flavorful of the bunch and at a 110 proof, you wouldnt even know it. GREAT stuff, albeit pricey

Bulldog: Nothing special, but solid.

Bluecoat: Great nose, taste was nothing special. solid.

Gvine: The most different of the "clear" gins. Herbal and floral. Makes a good martini, but different.

Kensington XO: A sippers gin! Near impossible to find and very pricey.

[Gillman]

Very interesting, the Boomsa Oude (I know it has been discussed here before) sounds like a Dutch genever gin, which would render it generally unsuitable for mixed drinks. It seems best slightly cool on its own.

If you ever get to a SB gathering (e.g., Sampler in April), please let me know, I would bring a gin blended by myself which you might find interesting.

Its profile has changed over the years and right now is inclined in a Beefeater way, with evident other influences.

Although components of it go back 15 years, I recall how I made it.

It started with a French artisanal gin from the French Flanders area. Although that area is known for a couple of surviving genever distilleries, this wasn't a genever, it was grain spirit (probably GNS) in which whole juniper berries had been added (they rested on the bottom of the bottle). Maybe other flavors were added too.

I added some more juniper berries for some reason and the taste became very sharp, not sweet but intensely juniper.

To that, I have since added Finsbury Gin, a brand marketed in Europe, Beefeater, Beefeater Orange, Plymouth Gin and probably one or two other dry gins (not genever), I think Gilbey's and one other well-known English dry gin.

The most recent additions were the Beefeater and Beefeater Orange.

It is a very full-tasting gin, very soft on the palate (something I try to achieve with all my blends or vattings). It makes an amazing Martini but I like to sip it neat sometimes. Beefeater can be quite intense and the other gins seem to soften it while still preserving its profile. Also, there is a slight orange undertone which fits perfectly into the dry gin universe of flavors.

To the Beefeater Orange bottle, I have added about a pint of regular Beefeater because while the Orange version is very good, it is quite sweet, too much so (for me), so adding more of the base it is made from seemed a good idea. It reduced the cane sugar taste while keeping the pleasant orange notes. The vatting could probably stand further dilution in this sense.

I won't just drink any combination that results from the additions mentioned. If the result is too sweet or too juniper or too something else I don't like, I'll add some more of one of the components that are still on hand to re-establish a correct balance and taste.

Of all the gins in all the gin joints I've visited in my time, I still like my own gin the best, you might say.. (apologies to the late Humphrey Bogart).

Gary

[Gillman]

In terms of what Chuck has been saying about early connections between American rye whiskey and geneva gin (or other early European white spirits in which rye made a telling appearance), I can only add my full assent. One has to infer from the history and other indicators. E.g., wasn't there an early distillery founded on Manhattan? This would have been Dutch in orientation. It would have made a cereals-based spirit, surely using rye, which would have been consumed unaged or aged for a time in wood. Where aged in reused or new uncharred barrels, it would, if unflavored with juniper, have been very close I think to Potrero's 1800's-style rye whiskey, or maybe to Lot 40. These in turn are quite close (I find) to a number of modern genevers, e.g., Filliers genever of Belgium which is aged and eschews the purple berry.

The common element is a decent amount of rye in the mashbill. We always come back to this, since it seems rye was little used in the U.K. and Ireland to distill from. It was used in a very, very small amount in pure pot still mashes in Eire until New Midleton was built, but we can set that aside too since the amounts were so small (1% or so of the total mash).

The Dutch and Germanic incomers to America provide the key, I think, since rye was so familiar to them at home.

Thus, I say again that the all-American bourbon whiskey which in most cases retains a proportion of rye, probably owes part of its lineage to these non-British and Irish immigrants.

As the years go back one's memories (I haven't written any of this down except episodically on whiskey boards) lose some clarity on where all this came from but I know John Lipman expressed similar ideas years ago and may well have stimulated my own thoughts in the area, in fact I am pretty sure he did.

[Slob]

I've had Bombay Sapphire, Tanqueray Ten, Hendricks, Plymouth, and Boodles among the higher end and enjoyed them all. I've had everything from Seagram's down to Wolfschmidt on the lower end and I agree that Seagram's is the best bang for the buck in that category. It just flat out tastes good.

[cowdery]

I agree with Vange about the Plymouth Gin. It is well worth trying if you like gin and it's priced about the same as the standard Bombay or Tanqueray, about $20 here.

Most of the new premium gins are still in the London Dry style, they're just messing around with the botanicals mix. Plymouth is a different style, primarily in being less dry, i.e., sweeter. Unlike Dutch Genever, the Plymouth works well in standard gin drinks.

[Jono]

Gin is one liqour I have never developed a taste for...(therefore real Martini's....due to the juniper and vermouth). However, I would like to give it a try again....I assume the gin should be ice cold? I have Bombay Sapphire on hand.

Gin and tonic is a popular drink...what are the proper proportions?

Does anyone sip Gin straight? :0

[cowdery]

A lot of people sip gin straight but they call in a dry martini. You know all the jokes, they wave the closed vermouth bottle over the glass. So, basically, that's straight gin (or vodka).

I wouldn't generally chill the gin. I use ice in a shaker and chill the drink that way. Most experts prefer stirring for drinks that are all liquor, like martinis, so I guess I'm not an expert.

Proportions for a gin and tonic are whatever you want them to be and in practice they range from a 1:1 ratio of gin to tonic, to maybe a 1:5 ratio. I prefer about 1:3. Too much gin makes it bitter.

[Jono]

Wiki has an informative article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin

I think the Gimlet looks interesting to try....

[jeff]

Proportions for a gin and tonic are whatever you want them to be and in practice they range from a 1:1 ratio of gin to tonic, to maybe a 1:5 ratio. I prefer about 1:3. Too much gin makes it bitter.

Leslie has started ordering straight gin with an olive when we are at a bar of questionable expertise. It's just easier than returning three drinks in a row...

But when making them at home the ratio is about 500:1 gin to vermouth:lol: That and the scant trace of Worcestershire makes for the perfect martini, in my humble opinion. Shaken, not stirred.

[ratcheer]

Wiki has an informative article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin

I think the Gimlet looks interesting to try....

I used to enjoy Gimlets when I was young. Now, they are far too sweet for me. They might be a good intro to gin, though.

Tim