Very Rare Old Heaven Hill BIB 10yr

[cigarnv]

I recently came across a bottle of VROHH 10yr, a bourbon I had not yet tried. I gather it is a reasonably priced bottling and to my palate is a decent pour. A few questions....

-Is this a current HH offering that is available?

-It says on the label that it is charchol filtered..... can a whiskey that is filtered still be classified as a bourbon?

TIA

[mozilla]

From what I understand....most bourbons are charcoal filtered. It seems that the process is something like this: they put some activated charcoal in the vat tank and swirl it for a while......and then you have charcoal filtered bourbon. Wow, quite a process.....and now you have it.

As far as VROHH Bib.....it should have a DSP # on the back of the bottle...if not, check the born on date. The last # of the year is alone before the last set of numbers. ie. xxx-xxxx-#-xxxx

If it is '06 or before, then you have original HH bourbon. I found some of this product in Ky a year ago, and have enjoyed it as some of the best HH bourbon available(in their own label).

[cigarnv]

Here are pics of all the #'s on the bottle

[mozilla]

I would be willing to bet that it was HH Bardstown from 1996, before the fire.

Mine is hard to tell that it's 100 proof....it is so soft and easy to drink. Very dry and subtle. I would not catagorize this as my regular flavor profile, but if this was the only style of bourbon available, forever.....I would be just fine with that. IIRC, $13 in Ky

[birdman1099]

DSP ky31 is Heaven Hill.

[cigarnv]

I would be willing to bet that it was HH Bardstown from 1996, before the fire.

Mine is hard to tell that it's 100 proof....it is so soft and easy to drink. Very dry and subtle. I would not catagorize this as my regular flavor profile, but if this was the only style of bourbon available, forever.....I would be just fine with that. IIRC, $13 in Ky

Jeff, interesting that I too found it very soft and almost too easy to drink. It has a nice hint of sweetness and reasonable complexity. The finish was nice but a bit short. For $13 this is a steal.... at least for my palate. I sense that it has been discontinued.. do they have anything close in the lineup now?

[mozilla]

Help me out and tell me what part of the world your in?

[nor02lei]

When in Kentucky 2006 I did taste this (think it was in a Bardstown bar) and liked it. Very sweet and chewy. I did actually bay a bottle later in Louisville to bring back to Sweden. As I recall I didn’t pay more that 10-12 USD for it and I did see it as real bargain.

Leif

[mozilla]

Sorry to differ with you Leif, I don't find too much sweet or chewy about this bourbon at all.

I find this to be further away from the EW pallet of fat and sweet, that 7yr 90 EW provides. This seems to be some whiskey that maybe sat on the bottom floor of the cold part of the warehouse for all ten years. Soft but complex.....dry and refined. Similar to what Wathens would go for in style. There is some sweetness to the nose, though it doesn't linger through the finish.

What you describe....I find also in the Dowling Deluxe 8yr and EW(dusties). More of the deep char and sugar levels, with deep fruits somewhat similar to caugh syrup.

If I have not said it already....VROHH is a great pour! Might not be what your used to from HH.....give one a try..................if you can find it.

[Gillman]

Those who like VROHH BIB might consider buying Henry McKenna Single Barrel Bonded 10 years old. They are both 10 years old, bonded, from the same recipe. I don't say the palate is identical but it will be similar. I find both whiskeys share the light oily quality which most HH whiskey has up to 12 years (the EWSBs clearly are selected to avoid any hint of oiliness, but arguably these other two are the more complex whiskeys).

Gary

[cigarnv]

Help me out and tell me what part of the world your in?

Jeff, I am in Northern Virginia.... just outside of DC....

[mozilla]

If your that close to Greg and Mark....watch out they don't trample you on the way in a liquor store. With what they have been finding in DC....there might not be much left.

Comedy aside...I have heard that the EW 15yr is really good. Can't say if it is as dry as the VROHH. Others of quality from HH are: Dowling Deluxe 8yr, JTS brown 8yr, Wathens(sourced), Virgin 12 and 15yr and Joshua Brook 8yr(sourced). I am sure there are more....most of these I have found in or near Ky. Wathens is the closest to the VROHH that I have found, though not Bib.

[cigarnv]

Jeff, I was actually with Greg and Mark yesterday at a Wild Turkey tasting held at Greg's home. Great guys with an outstanding selection of bourbon. Greg did a first class job with the tasting which was very well attended.... it was my first, hopefully I will get an invite back:lol: .

[BourbonJoe]

Which one did ya like best Reid?

Joe :usflag:

[mozilla]

Sound like a great time!

Those guys can sure sniff out a dusty bottle. Did they have anything that was close to the VROHH in profile?

[cigarnv]

Which one did ya like best Reid?

Joe :usflag:

Actually my #1 pick was the current 12yo export, #2 was an aged split label 12yo, #3 was RR 101, #4 aged 8yr 101, #5 current 8 year 101

[cigarnv]

Sound like a great time!

Those guys can sure sniff out a dusty bottle. Did they have anything that was close to the VROHH in profile?

Pretty much stuck with WT offerings and a selection of Willet bourbon offerings.... so not much resembling the HH. They sure do sniff out some stuff..... some parts of town they go to to find these gems even Rambo would avoid... but I guess for the right bourbon one would risk their lives....

[mozilla]

Well, you have a great source of info with the Bourbon Brothers so close to ya'.

I am sure they have seen some of the bottles you would be looking for. I would check out the Wathens...if you have some extra dough....if not find some more VROHH or some of the other HH Bibs.

I also like the Barton Bibs...they seem to use a good amount of malted barley in their mash. Can't say for sure, just reminds me of an old timey bourbon. They have quite a few labels of Bib's that are in the $12 range for a 750ml.

[cowdery]

-It says on the label that it is charchol filtered..... can a whiskey that is filtered still be classified as a bourbon?

Short answer, yes. The regulations are mute on the subject of charcoal filtering.

Longer answer: many people mistakenly believe that Jack Daniel's is disqualified from use of the term "bourbon" due to its charcoal filtering process. The main reason Jack Daniel's is not called bourbon is because it doesn't want to be. There is nothing in the regulations that suggests its charcoal filtering process is incompatible with bourbon designation.

There is also confustion about the words "charcoal filtered" when they appear on bourbon labels. The confusion is deliberate. When Jack Daniel's became successful, many bourbons put those words on their labels. It isn't a lie, they do filter the product through charcoal, but not in the same way that the two Tennessee products do.

[cigarnv]

Chuck, this is great information. When we visited HH and took the short tour we were specifically told that the reason Jack Daniel's could not be called a bourbon was because of the filtering?

If I understand you properly Jack Daniel's is by all accounts a true bourbon?

[squire]

Either Jack Daniels or George Dickel could be sold as Bourbon but not Kentucky Bourbon. Truth is the TN brands have chosen to market themselves as a product different from Bourbon when in fact they aren't. They all use a similar mashbill and are wood aged but the Lincoln Co. process used in TN was originally a way to speed up the aging process.

Regards,

Squire

[cowdery]

It is fair to say that the question of whether or not Daniel's and Dickel could call themselves bourbon is debatable. I take the position that they could but there are some reasonable arguments to the contrary. What is factually true is that the question has never been decided by any entity with the authority to rule on it. The recognition of Tennessee Whiskey as a category was engineered by Reagor Motlow, who was afraid that the emerging post-prohibition regulatory regime would force them call their product bourbon. They sought and received permission to use the term Tennessee Whiskey, but you will not find that term in the regulations, nor will you find any official definition of it anywhere.

As the regulatory scheme has developed, the regulations have been used to prevent people from using terms like bourbon on products that do no adhere to the specifications. The only regulated term Jack Daniel's uses is whiskey and the threshold for use of that term is pretty low.

[Stu]

It is fair to say that the question of whether or not Daniel's and Dickel could call themselves bourbon is debatable. I take the position that they could but there are some reasonable arguments to the contrary. What is factually true is that the question has never been decided by any entity with the authority to rule on it. The recognition of Tennessee Whiskey as a category was engineered by Reagor Motlow, who was afraid that the emerging post-prohibition regulatory regime would force them call their product bourbon. They sought and received permission to use the term Tennessee Whiskey, but you will not find that term in the regulations, nor will you find any official definition of it anywhere.

As the regulatory scheme has developed, the regulations have been used to prevent people from using terms like bourbon on products that do no adhere to the specifications. The only regulated term Jack Daniel's uses is whiskey and the threshold for use of that term is pretty low.

OK Chuck, time to educate the newbie again. I could swear that during one of my distillery tours I was told that pouring the whiskey through 12 feet of charcoal was "adding to the whiskey before it went into the barrel". Was that a sales pitch by someone who was trying to play down JD? In fact I think I heard it more than once.

[Gillman]

Stu, I've heard that theory, and it might be right. However, it seems to me that a slow filtering through maple charcoal is intended to take away from the whiskey rather than add to it (the pores of the burned wood absorb fusels and other impurities in the new make). Still, the lengthy contact with the burned maple wood might be thought to impart a taste, and this may be so (Jack Daniels seems to have a maple charcoal overlay, maybe residual sugars get into it from the stacks of charcoal).

Gary

[cowdery]

OK Chuck, time to educate the newbie again. I could swear that during one of my distillery tours I was told that pouring the whiskey through 12 feet of charcoal was "adding to the whiskey before it went into the barrel". Was that a sales pitch by someone who was trying to play down JD? In fact I think I heard it more than once.

Many people say and believe this, but that doesn't make it true. That is the gist of the argument, though. I agree with Gary that it's hard to construe the Lincoln County Process as the addition of a flavoring, which would be prohibited. The point, however, is that neither your opinion nor my opinion matters. The fact is that there has never been a ruling on the question issued by TTB or any other suitable entity. It's all conjecture.