Van Winkle Rye (a-i/j)

[spun_cookie]

I have found pieces of Van Winkle Rye threads all over, but did not see one that discussed all of them to date, so if I missed it... Sorry..

Thanks to Mark G, I have a bottle of the VW rye i version. I have not opened it yet (trying to get my bottle count down), but I am curious how each version has fared.

Anyone had some of each or a few to compare to others? Which ones do you like and why?

[barturtle]

I'm not sure there has ever been a complete vertical done of these bottlings, nor have I noticed anyone having a complete set to do so.

I do know I've had *at least* C, D, F, G, H, I. While at a get together in Indy I had the chance to put D, F and I against each other (though I'd had a few at that point)...on that evening it was F that stood out ever so slightly from the pack.

[DowntownD]

...just finished a bottle of the I series, my first bottle of any straight rye, and wow it was good! I can tell, I think, that there's room for improvement, somehow, but it's very very good as is. it has instantly catapulted itself into my top 5.

I can't wait to try more ryes. The Rittenhouse BIB, Baby Saz, and a couple of others are on my short list - but only after getting another bottle of the VWFRR. I'm curious to know your impressions once you've cracked it open and are a few sittings into it.

[Mamba]

I had a G-series that's now gone, and it never really wowed me. When tasted against a Saz 18 and Saz Jr, it came in 3rd every time.

[cigarnv]

How much of the VWFRR is made on an annual basis and what price range has it been selling in?

[doubleblank]

This is all from memory, so feel free to correct me anyone.

Julians first bottling of his rye was numbered but without any preceding letter done in 1999 (+/-). It was 13yo at the time and I believe sent overseas. He then started adding letters for each years release. So the "A" was about 14yo, "B" about 15yo, and so on. Beginning with the "F" release, it became a mingling of two different ryes and was tanked. He bottles about 350 cases a year and 290 are for the US. Not very much at all. Julian expects to start using BT rye in about 2017 and use his tanked rye until then (so long as the tanked rye stays good).

Prices in Houston run about $35 when you can find it.

I have the original unlettered, the "D" and "H" in the bunker. I brought a bottle of the original release to the Gazebo a year ago and it was excellent.

Randy

[Gillman]

I would only add to that that there is a version sold currently in Europe without any batch letter at the top of the label. However, this is not the original release since the label indicates production in Frankfort.

I would think (maybe Julian will say) that this is current production, thus probably the same as a G, H, or I in the U.S.

I brought one back from Spain last December and it is extremely good.

Gary

[cowdery]

Someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I believe the current and most recent releases of Van Winkle Rye are all from that same batch of rye made at Bernheim in the 1980s, originally intended for the Cream of Kentucky brand. Julian got it from Diageo and kept it in wood until, in his opinion, it got as good as it was going to get. He then tanked some and sold the rest, still in barrels, to KBD. They then sold it as a number of different products, including the Willett family rye and LeNell's special bottling, but also the Hirsch and Michter's ryes. Julian reportedly has said that if he had known it was going to keep aging as well as it did, he wouldn't have sold it.

That whiskey is just about all gone or, perhaps, is all gone.

The earliest bottlings of VWFRR were of whiskey made by Glenmore in Owensboro, at the plant Angostura is getting ready to reopen.

At some point, at least in theory, VWFRR will become rye whiskey made at Buffalo Trace.

[Gillman]

My understanding is it is "all of the above", i.e., what is currently tanked and being sold is Medley rye and COK rye vatted.

Gary

[doubleblank]

Elaborating on my post above, Julian's rye became the vatting described by Gary with the "F" bottling. So the "F", "G", "H" and "I" versions are this vatted and tanked rye. Julian believes he has enough in tank to last until the BT rye is "ready" for use in his bottlings. In 2006, Julian told us it would be about 11 more years before he would be using BT's rye. All of this is based on the assumption that the tanked rye doesn't go south on him for some reason (like some believe happened to the tanked Hirsch 16 in its last iteration).

Randy

[barturtle]

I still find it interesting that he would choose to wait that long, as it seems they should have some of the Saz Jr rye reaching 9-10yo now, so it would only be 3-4 years before there could be some 13yo BT produced rye ready for this bottling.

Although....this may be a good time to reintroduce the ORVWOTR 12/90 to the product line and keep the VWFRR in the upper teens...I'm all for more and various expressions of rye.

[doubleblank]

We can only guess at his reasoning Timothy, but the whiskey currently in his 13yo bottling is much older than that....19yo more or less. Julian may believe he needs to get a similar age on the BT rye to make it a better taste match for the current product. I like your suggestion to reintroduce the 12yo OTR to put product on the shelf. But with the success of BT's Sazerac, there may not be enough excess rye in inventory to introduce a new product.

Randy

[Vange]

Does the current VW rye have the letter 'A' preceeding the number or no letter at all and just a number? Someone I know found one with no number and asked me about it and I am a bit rusty on my VW rye info. Thanks.

[Vange]

I think I found my own answer using search. The non-lettered bottlings were export only and actually 13 years old.

[Virus_Of_Life]

I still find it interesting that he would choose to wait that long, as it seems they should have some of the Saz Jr rye reaching 9-10yo now, so it would only be 3-4 years before there could be some 13yo BT produced rye ready for this bottling.

We can only guess at his reasoning Timothy, but the whiskey currently in his 13yo bottling is much older than that....19yo more or less. Julian may believe he needs to get a similar age on the BT rye to make it a better taste match for the current product. I like your suggestion to reintroduce the 12yo OTR to put product on the shelf. But with the success of BT's Sazerac, there may not be enough excess rye in inventory to introduce a new product.

I am sure this has been answered already somewhere, so forgive my laziness in not wanting to search, but is there any chance the rye he will be using is a different mash bill or yeast? I just have a hard time imagining them finding barrels of Sazerac that would taste anything like either the VWFRR. Then again with some more age and Julian's skill anything could be possible, but it still seems weird they'd be waiting that long if there isn't a recipe tweak that was involved.

[Attila]

I think I found my own answer using search. The non-lettered bottlings were export only and actually 13 years old.

And I can tell you, very, very tasty. I've recently put down a couple of those bottles.

[sailor22]

The letters preceding the numbers go to I and for some reason the current iteration - while still the old tanked batch - has started over with A again. I think it has been the same juice for a few years now regardless of letter prefix.

So if you see a few bottles on the shelf that start with A they are most likley the current offering - not a dusty.

[Vange]

The person I know has 2 bottles with NO letters at all just numbers. I found it odd until I found the threads here.