The Rate of Maturation in the Barrel

[Guest **DONOTDELETE**]

Well T.D. that's the most positive post you've ever made! You've done quite a bit of research in this area to boot. Thanks for the link as that is very good information of which I was not aware.This is something that is not in any of the books on bourbon nor do master distillers have much to say about those kinds of things (or at least not the ones I've spoken with). Do you have anymore? I'd like you to discuss how the lignin; tannins, and the effects of oxidation as they interact with one another. I was always led to believe that the aging process was basicly a leeching process, and not of an ongoing chemical reaction/interaction. It's enlightening to see this kind of intel surface. As for your remark on bourbon extract => Brown-Forman does it all the time and they call it Southern Comfort. They make a pretty penny off of it too!

[ratcheer]

When I was young, I liked Southern Comfort. Is it not good, anymore?

Tim

[Blackkeno]

On an international web based catalogue under "bourbon" Southern Comfort was one of the half dozen items for sale.

[Guest **DONOTDELETE**]

Tim & John,

Southern Comfort has always been nothing more than grain neutral spirits and flavoring watered down to bottling proof. It is not now and never has been whiskey of any kind.

[kitzg]

Keep in mind that most bartenders don't know which products are actually bourbon, which are American whiskies, and which are technically not. So it is not surprising that an international website would make the mistake.

SoCo is very popular and does very well for Brown-Forman. Linn already made it clear that SoCo not a bourbon (and among whiskey drinkers it is not respected as is the other BF non-bourbon, Jack Daniels).

Also keep in mind that most newbie drinkers have no clue AND do not like the taste of whiskey or alcohol. Thus, SoCo is a sweeter way for them to down spirits.

[tdelling]

>Why not just get some "essence of bourbon barrel" & a bottle of Georgia Moon

>and take a crack at making my own.

That's actually a better idea than you think! And it's a *lot* more fun than you'd

think, too. There are a few "essence of barrel" manufacturers out there,

some with better products than others, but in my book, that's cheating...

developing your own recipe is where it's at.

Tim

[tdelling]

>This is something that is not in any of the books on bourbon nor do master

>distillers have much to say about those kinds of things.

Bourbon books? In my experience, bourbon books come in two flavors:

1) Full of tasting notes and color pictures so that they sell well at Barnes&Noble

2) Full of history so that you can sell them to historians

There's not really a market for bourbon books with lots of chemistry... as

a matter of fact, you tend to hear things like "No Chemists Allowed!" and

"Dr. Crow didn't use no gas chromatograph!", and that's about all.

Sorry to be the one to break the news to you, but if you want to

learn about whiskies and what happens in the fermenter and in the

still and in the barrel, then you're gonna have to bite the bullet

and read about, umm... scotch and irish whisky. You don't have

to drink any! Just read.

You have to glean a little information here and a little there. Most of

the research out there isn't really fundimental research anyhow, it's mostly

practical stuff. I've just barely begun my exploration of bourbon chemistry...

it's something I got excited about a year or so ago, but I haven't done much

it lately. I never even found the answer to one of my biggest questions:

why does aging in a hot dry warehouse increase proof, while a cool damp

warehouse decreases proof? I can personally come with a dozen different

theories as to why it may happen, but which theory is correct? I've seen

lots of people mention the phenomenon, but no one ever says why it

happens! (Anyone who wants to hear a dozen different theories and

all kinds of physical chemistry, feel free to ask...)

It's not the best book in the world, but a good place to start for anything

technical is a British book called "The Science and Technology of

Whiskies", edited by Sharp, Duncan, and Piggott. Don't despair! It's

got bourbon information in there, too. They reference all of their facts,

so you can go look up their original sources.

It's out of print, but Amazon at least knows that it exists, even if they

don't have any copies:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470214163/qid=1028927721/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-4660205-5183105

When I have more time, I'll work more on my Bourbon Chemistry Library,

but I've been a little distracted lately... a banjo recently entered my life,

and playing it is so much fun that it even cuts into my drinking time!

Tim

p.s.

I promise that if I ever fulfill every bourbon lover's dream and open my

own distillery and preside as master distiller for 20 years, I'll personally

give detailed chemistry and physics lectures to all who want them!

[cornsqueezins]

"There's not really a market for bourbon books with lots of chemistry..."

I totally agree...but I did happen to find a book several years ago that was helpful. "The Lore of Still Building: A Primer on the production of alcohol for food and fuel" by Kathleen Howard and Norman Gibat. It can be found at Amazon.

The book's title and paperback cartoon cover make it seem like some hillbilly book you would find in a Smoky Mt. souvenir shop. But it's got some good fundamental chemical information on alcohol as well as reference charts and a big section about producing ethanol for fuel.

It doesn't have anything to say about the chemical reactions during a whiskey's aging process but focuses more on the fermenting and distilling processes. It may be a simplistic book for some but I read it about ten years ago not knowing hardly a thing about fermentation, distillation, etc. and I really enjoyed it.

What especially struck me at the time I read it was a section on how to make a homemade still from a pressure cooker! Never tried it but have heard claims that it is a tried-n-true method. The book also explains why pure grain alcohol is almost always 190 proof rather than the expected 200 proof. The book gave me a good beginner's definition of many things including malted barley: what it is and the role it plays in the fermentation process.

-Troy

[tdelling]

>I totally agree...but I did happen to find a book several years ago that was

>helpful. "The Lore of Still Building: A Primer on the production of alcohol for food

>and fuel" by Kathleen Howard and Norman Gibat.

I wholeheartedly agree that anyone who wants to know more about bourbon

should read the home distillation literature. Reading things like this will give

you *hundreds* of new questions, and you'll look at the details of the

process with a much more critical eye. What is the angle of the line arm on that

pot still? What's the geometry of that heat exchanger? Do you stop fermentation

before the yest population hits a maximum or afterwards?

>What especially struck me at the time I read it was a section on how to make a

>homemade still from a pressure cooker!

I haven't read Howard and Gibat's book, but I've heard that it has lots of

different still designs in it. Personally, I'll recommend Mike Nixon's latest

book "The Compleat Distiller", and Ian Smiley's book "Making Pure Corn

Whiskey". Tony Ackland's website is also a great resource. I can

provide www links if anyone's interested.

I see bourbon education as follows:

Bourbon 101: What is bourbon? Three grain mashbills. Bourbon vs.

Canadian vs. Scotch. Wheaters vs. Rye. Tennessee vs. Bourbon. Basic tasting.

Bourbon 201: Intro to the history of bourbon: Dr. Crow, etc. Sour mash process.

Basic distilling, including pot stills vs. column stills. Barrel char levels.

Advanced tasting.

Bourbon 301: History of distilling in America, migration of the Scots-Irish, Whskey

rebellion. Fermentation science: diastatic power, etc. Distilling science:

ethanol-water phase diagram, azeotropic distillation. Intro to blending. Intro

Tasting Laboratory for other spirits: irish, scotch, rum, vodka, etc.

Master's Degree: Hands-on mashing, fermentation, and distillation experience

required. Intro to analytical chemistry for use in process control. Advanced

tasting laboratory for all distilled beverages, all beverages aged in oak.

PhD: Requires an original contribution to bourbonic science, in any bourbonic

category.

Any opinions on my curriculum?

Tim

[tdelling]

Well, in reply to my own post about the Bourbon Curriculum:

I've neglected a few aspects.

Bourbon 201 should include Bottled-in-Bond, the three-tier distribution

system, the Mint Julep, and a short Intro to Marketing, Advertising, and PR.

All levels should include Bourbon Spirituality, Blues Appreciation,

Tobacco Appreciation, and Canine Companionship Appreciation.

Tim