A question for craft distillers? Where's the craft?

[craigthom]

I think I can see both sides of the argument. I'm more familiar with beer, so I'll use that as an example.

Over the past twenty years or so there's been a huge explosion in craft beers. Part of that was the brewpub, the restaurant that brews its own beer.

When brewpubs started becoming popular a lot of really crappy ones sprang up. I get the impression that somewhere someone was selling "instant brewpub" kits, and people were opening them not because they had a love for beer but because they thought they could make money doing it. If the trend had been Tiki restaurants, then that's what they would have been doing.

Beer from these places was 100% extract and had no character at all. It's was all straight from a recipe book. Bland, boring stuff.

This doesn't mean, though, that someone couldn't use one of these brewpub kits to produce decent beer, even starting with the same extracts. They'd have to prove it to me, though, and it would be an uphill battle.

[Gillman]

Well, that's it. Once I had a conversation with the late beer expert Michael Jackson about malt extract (a kind of syrup or condensate of malted barley - another short-cut). He said if the extract was well made and fresh, the beers could be very good, but in his experience, it was the rare beer that met this test. We both agreed the beers of the Orange Brewery, a brewpub on Pimlico Road in London, met this test. I believe this operation still exists. Its beers were made (the last I knew) from a custom made extract made in large quantities.

I think in the end it's a judgment thing about any production process for a food or drink - how far does it stray from the original concept before it loses authenticity (cutting a little slack too though on what is authentic in the Arcadian mists). You have to look at each individual case. As Chuck has kindly noted, I tend to be an optimist in these matters. His perspective is valuable too, though, and I liken it to that of the late Mr. Jackson who used to raise an eyebrow every time a brewer would, say, use hop pellets instead of the whole flowers, or use an adjunct of some kind (at least where this was not part of the style of the beer). I think he once wrote that every time a step like that is taken, one moves incrementally away from authenticity and after a while you end up with something lesser.

Gary

[ratcheer]

I know that I am probably way behind the curve on this, but I just found out yesterday that Guinness is made around the world from extract made in and shipped from Ireland. They call it "essence". That is not what I expect to get when I am buying something that costs that much.

I remember being fond of Guinness back in the early to mid 70's. Any I have tried in the past 15 years or so has not been very satisfying, even though it seems to generally still be held in pretty high esteem. I had chalked it up to a change in my personal tastes, but now I wonder.

Tim

[Gillman]

Well, Tim, the Guinness story is complicated. The beer you are referring to is Extra Stout, which is brewed for local consumption outside Ireland and even then only is found in certain markets. In Canada, that version is brewed by Inbev/Labatt and sold in glass bottles. It is also - the Canadian-brewed one -sold in parts of the U.S., often in grocery and supermarkets, in pint bottles. On the side of the label it states it is brewed in Canada (New Brunswick I think).

But the Guinness in the tall black cans and shaped plastic bottles is brewed in Ireland and does not use the essence, ditto the Guinness draft widely available.

Guinness arguably, anywhere, is not as good as it was. The best versions though, Guiness Foreign Extra Stout and Special Export, are excellent, full-flavored beers and probably represent the kind of taste that was the Guinness signature in the 1800's. Unfortunately you can't get these in North America. FES is widely available in the Caribbean though.

That said, I still like a fresh Guinness draft, it is still a good beer.

Gary

[ratcheer]

Thanks, Gary. You always have the pertinent facts. I had no idea the question was so complex.

That said, I rarely drink Guinness anymore, so there is little reason for me to have kept up with it. The last thing like that I had was Samuel Smith's "Tadcaster" taddy porter. Michael Jackson said it was the best commercial beer in the world. I didn't care for it, either.

Tim

[Gillman]

In your market, I'd advise if available Fuller London Porter, which has a deeper, slightly sweeter taste than Taddy Porter (which has an acidic edge - a trademark of some porter styles). Whether in can or bottle, it is very reliable.

There may be, too, craft U.S. stouts or porters which may please.

I just bought a smoked oatmeal stout in our market here, some of this may come with me to Gazebo.

Gary

[ratcheer]

I don't recall seeing anything like Fuller London Porter. Last winter, I bought a case of the Sam Adams Winter Sampler, which included some porter that was pretty good.

A lot of people seem to be unaware that stout is porter. It simply means, you guessed it, strong porter. Somewhere along the years, people stopped calling it stout porter, shortening it to just "stout". And now, most people have no idea that they are the same thing. In fact, many porters are stouter than some stouts.

Tim

[Gillman]

That's right. Porter and stout are closely related styles. Porter came first, and migrated to Ireland, whence the stout variation emerged (characterised too, later, by use of some darkened unmalted barley). I might bring some Fuller's London Porter to Gazebo, Tim if you are coming this year, I'll make certain of it.

Gary

[Gillman]

I checked online about Orange Brewery in Pimlico, London. It still exists but does not brew any longer, all the beers are brought in, so it would function then as any other London pub. The beers described sound first rate, though, e.g., Fuller's.

Gary

[jeff]

True enough, today's stout had its beginnings as a "stout porter", but the difference, at least today, is in the use of roasted barley in the stout. It lends that coffee-like roastiness to the profile of a stout, whereas today's porters typically use a good percentage of chocolate malt to achieve the dark color and chocolate-like flavors.

[Gillman]

Yes, this is really the keynote to Irish (bitter) stout I think. It gives a dryness and perhaps an oily note - like unmalted cereals do in a distilled ferment - which sets off against the sweetness of barley malt. The Irish hopping is interesting too, which is not an aromatic hoppiness like in English bitter or American pale ale but is simply a bitter hop resin on the palate.

However, other forms of stout survived in England. The term stout itself was used in England before porter was invented in London, fans of Jackson will recall his citation of the pre-porter impecunious poet who dreamed, "a pint of stout to surprise the muse" (i.e., jump-start the poetic imagination). At the time, stout meant any strong beer.

Surviving English stout styles include Imperial Russian Stout and the mild sweet milk stout. Also, in the north of England, oatmeal stout. None of these uses I believe roasted (unmalted) barley, which is an Irish trait and is said to derive from a time when a tax on malt made brewers look for different ways to save money.

Guinness Stout on draught is still a good drink and it can be in the can or bottle too. It needs to be very fresh and drunk only half-chilled to see it at its best. I even like the locally made "essence" Guinness although perhaps it is less earthy and rich than 30 years ago.

For the Gazebo, I'm now thinking I will bring the spirits mentioned earlier but not the beer (and I have very limited space). I might in lieu of the beer get some Champagne and some Guinness and offer people Black Velvets, 50/50 or either in its own. A festive touch for what will prove to be a great SB event I think.

Gary