bvscfanatic Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 There is some talk on this board about "vatting" or mixing together various bourbons. It seems most of the time it is to make a bad bourbon tolerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramiel McHinson Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 For REAL, dude. Exactly my current scene. So I'm stuck with this bottle of Jim Beam (white label). The 4 year stuff. Man, I wouldn't give this shit to my CAT. My own fault, I know. Mea culpa. Blah, blah, blah. So what CAN I mix it with to make it drinkable? Or should I just pour it down the commode? I hate to waste bourbon, even REALLY BAD bourbon. Alcohol is alcohol. Any suggestions for saving this nasty stuff?Geez! This could be a real challenge. Well....I'm not sure what you like but we have established what you don't like. First, to avoid further expense and risk of disapointment with bourbons, you could use various amounts of coke, Mountain Dew, or ginger ale. That should mask the taste a little and still give you the warm social feeling that usually follows an event involving alcohol.If you find this suggestion offensive, I apologize and will move on with the next, riskier step. Try mixing Knob Creek or even Booker's Bourbon. Same distiller so you don't widely depart from the Beam profile but you do add some good and powerful taste that will take a step back towards mild. The Bookers will dominate even in small amounts so work your way up to the idea that you are toning down the Bookers and stretching it a little further by adding the right amount of JB White.If you don't want the heavier taste, you just want to keep it smooth and cover the JBW up a little then try adding Maker's Mark or Woodford Reserve.Not willing to spend a lot of money on the rescue plan? Try Seagram's Crown 7 with it. Okay, you don't want any neutral grain spirit in the mix and you still want best bang for the buck. Try Old Grand Dad.This may really upset you but consider it momentarily, add Jim Beam straight rye. That will add some more rye spice without adding big bold taste. It's not expensive, The two are related and may get along just fine.If all hope is lost on saving taste then the next best thing to do to avoid wasting the alcohol is pour it into a one gallon glass wide mouth jug, add some hickory chips and let that soak. Next time you grill some meat, add the hickory chips to your charcoal or gas grill and notice that wonderful hickory smoked bourbon aroma in your meal. It works for meat, taters, and some vegetables known to work well with grillin.Good luck!P.S. At least 75% of readers will be horrified by these suggestions and offer you better advice. You will be saved. Have faith and happy shots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickert Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 I think that is some good advice. I probably wouldn't risk good bourbon on bad bourbon. So here are my suggestions. If you like the rye flavor profile (spicy) add Old Grand Dad or a straight rye. If you want to mellow it out but not mix it with non-bourbon, go with Weller SR. If you just want to get rid of it, mix with coke zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvscfanatic Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Geez! This could be a real challenge. Well....I'm not sure what you like but we have established what you don't like. First, to avoid further expense and risk of disapointment with bourbons, you could use various amounts of coke, Mountain Dew, or ginger ale. That should mask the taste a little and still give you the warm social feeling that usually follows an event involving alcohol....P.S. At least 75% of readers will be horrified by these suggestions and offer you better advice. You will be saved. Have faith and happy shots!I thoroughly enjoyed reading that, and I appreciates your suggestion of the OGD too, Ben. I do usually tend toward the spicier high-rye bourbons and I like OGD. I do not like bourbon mixed with soft drinks such as pop or with juice of any kind, so I skipped the smoothering suggestion right away. I like to sip it neat or on the rocks. If I DO mix bourbon with anything sweet at all, then it might be with something equally alcoholic, such as (I can't wait to see the reaction to THIS) Yukon Jack or Southern Comfort. Seems like I tried this too and, while it was tolerable, it just didn't seem worth it. I experimented a bit with vatting the JB with VOB BIB. It was tolerable too, and ironic that I was vatting the JB with something less expensive to raise up its quality. At least THAT somewhat abates the question of whether the vatting should be viewed as improving a poor bourbon or dragging down a better and more costly bourbon. In the end, I gave the 1.75L bottle and its remaining contents to my guitarist. He'll drink just about anything if it doesn't bite too bad. I think it was the best solution because it appears to have made us both happy. :slappin: Thanks again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polyamnesia Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 not sure if i can say that JB white is 'bad' bourbon. Heaven Hill white label IS bad bourbon! what i can say is JB white (and JD...) are simply not good...is this semantics? has anyone vatted THOSE two together? i bet actually that WT101 would give JB a unique lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvscfanatic Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 not sure if i can say that JB white is 'bad' bourbon. Heaven Hill white label IS bad bourbon! what i can say is JB white (and JD...) are simply not good...is this semantics?has anyone vatted THOSE two together? i bet actually that WT101 would give JB a unique lift. I'll agree. The JB (this was the 4 yr white label, not the 7 yr) isn't BAD, just not particularly interesting. It's mellow, smooth, but very lacking. And I also agree that WT101 would go far to give it a boost. Almost anything might, I suppose, given that the JB itself is so bland. And maybe I just enjoy kicking JB around because it is such a big seller -- one of the big dogs on the block -- and I'm such a contrarian at heart and such a natural one to champion the underdog. I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I have found that some bourbons have a corny taste and often those at younger ages. Beam White Label, the current WT 80 and the Heaven Hill-branded line (amongst many others) seem to have this flavor, they aren't "aged-out" to the point of effacing that taste. Four Roses 80 doesn't have it, and it is a mingling of 10 bourbons. Well, I think it has a little, but not a lot. Does the mingling "hide" the young taste of some of the constituents? Maybe, in fact this is likely I think.And so what I have done is mingle younger-tasting whiskeys like Beam White Label with older ones to get a balance, to balance the extremes as a poster put it recently in this thread (polyamnesia I think).To mingle like with like will not "get you where you want to go", in the words of a well-known 60's pop song.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvscfanatic Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 And so what I have done is mingle younger-tasting whiskeys like Beam White Label with older ones to get a balance, to balance the extremes ... GaryAs regards the JB 4 yr old, I totally agree that the age is largely at issue here, though I'm just not a Beam fan period. I learned quickly that I much prefer 6+ yr bourbon. That said, you took my mind back to the interview with Crown Royal master blender Andrew MacKay on the Crown Royal website. One of the things that he emphasizes is the effort to make Crown Royal "well balanced". This is a primary goal for him -- balance. So now you got me thinking that perhaps we have two ways to approach our search for the "perfect bourbon". One approach (which most bourbon drinkers appear to focus on) is finding the bourbon(s) that we like best right off the shelf. Another might be to study the characteristics and qualities that we like in certain bourbons and then vat them ourselves in search of the perfect balance that suits our own particular palate. Taste is such a unique thing. I've read reviews of high mid and top shelf bourbons that are 180 degrees from each other. Vatting isn't really discussed all that much on these forums, and I'm very surprised that it isn't a very major topic of discussion. Perhaps the most important goal of each bourbon afficionado should be that of becoming his (or her) own personal "master blender".I find this more fascinating the more I think about it.Thanks, Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polyamnesia Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 ...Vatting isn't really discussed all that much on these forums, and I'm very surprised that it isn't a very major topic of discussion. Perhaps the most important goal of each bourbon afficionado should be that of becoming his (or her) own personal "master blender"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 I did notice that request and of course am in favour of it, but over the years on this board in fact we have had many discussions of "vatting" (that seems the term generally used to describe the process, it was borrowed from Scots whisky terminology). It has come up in all kinds of threads.Some people are very interested in it and others less so or not at all. I have explained a number of times in those older discussions how I got the idea. It came in part from reading 19th century blending manuals in which the best "blends" were not in fact blends (i.e., with GNS in them) but rather were all straight whiskey (say, a mixture of two bourbons and a straight rye, or all of the one or other). Also, I was prompted in part by the legal definition of bourbon which can include a mixture of bourbons. And this made sense to me because bourbon has to be made a certain way to begin with, so there is enough commonality amongst different brands to warrant a do-it-yourself approach. And anyway I had read that some (non-distilling) merchants do mingle whiskeys (even before I learned from Chuck Cowdery that Four Roses does so for its bourbons - Chuck has also pointed out it used to be owned by Seagrams and might have been influenced in this regard by Seagram's ideas of blending and balance as applied to its Canadian whisky output). But then too I remembered reading once that in the middle 1900's a Kentucky distillery would add some straight rye to its bourbon to stiffen the taste. Of course that could not be called bourbon, but rather a blend of straight whiskeys or something like that, but I mention it to make a larger point.And so some years back I realised there was nothing "wrong" with doing so and of course blending (in the broad sense) is very common in the spirits world, e.g., for Scotch that isn't single malt. Finally I was cognizant that mingling hundreds of barrels even of the same bourbon is a kind of vatting since the whiskeys will often taste different from barrel to barrel or rick to rick and may be of different ages, and perhaps made at different plants or with different technologies, etc. (Rare Breed is a mingling of three Wild Turkey bourbons - same mashbill and yeast - of different ages).So just some background there.But there is this current thread and for those interested, they can mention here some successes or thoughts. For me it is great because I never have a bottle that languishes unused. I mingle the ones I feel will benefit. Averaging the extremes is one approach and a good one. It doesn't mean you get a tasteless result (I might add), I have found that new and interesting tastes often arise. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinenjo Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 i bet actually that WT101 would give JB a unique lift.That sounds like a decent suggestion. I'd say try it! The high proof of WT, along with the char and body of WT would do well to match the lightness of Beam White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvscfanatic Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 well, i humbly submitted this not too long ago:http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11211 :grin: And I have seconded the motion. Interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felthove Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 This weekend I stumbled upon a nice mix: one part OGD 114, on part WT101 and one part WTRB. A match made in heaven. Tobacco, egg nog, hard candy, caramel. Wonderful stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polyamnesia Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 This weekend I stumbled upon a nice mix: one part OGD 114, on part WT101 and one part WTRB. A match made in heaven. Tobacco, egg nog, hard candy, caramel. Wonderful stuff.wow. i can see that. i've done a similar vatting. sadly, i can't duplicate it now...out of WTRB! right now, doing something almost blasphemous...a good gulp of Handy Saz left.....throwing in a dash of JB Rye...if anything, the powerful monster that is Handy Saz simply swallowed the JB Rye before i did...where did little beam go? but still, it isn't quite the pure breed i've gotten used to in the last week.nonetheless, nice and i am catching the struggling gurglings of JB Rye's camphor hand sticking out as the whirlpool whips it down down down...that's certainly bad poetry more than it is a tasting note:searching: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvscfanatic Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 This weekend I stumbled upon a nice mix: one part OGD 114, on part WT101 and one part WTRB. A match made in heaven. Tobacco, egg nog, hard candy, caramel. Wonderful stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvscfanatic Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 This weekend I stumbled upon a nice mix: one part OGD 114, on part WT101 and one part WTRB. A match made in heaven. Tobacco, egg nog, hard candy, caramel. Wonderful stuff.I'm enjoying it right now as a reward for a long day of very hard work and as an early reward for the work that awaits me tomorrow. You're right. Wonderful stuff!!! Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickert Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 I have a good one for you...Mix Dickle #8 with Dickle #12. I went 1:1, but depending on what people like I could see it going 2:1 either way.To me 12 had more body, but 8 had a more pleasant flavor. After trying each on their own, I poured them together. The resulting drink had very little alcohol burn and provided a great balance of sweetness, smokiness and spice. It almost reminded me of pumpkin bread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funknik Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 After trying both seperately, I decided to vat ER17 '08 & ERSB together 1:1 to see what I came up with...I was very pleased with the results: ER10 & 17 Vat.... Nose: Maple sugar...woody but so sweet First Sip: The flavor almost knocked me over it was so big...much more so than either alone...rye, very strong tea with cream, and sweet maple Finish: The tea flavor continues and is joined by that wonderful soft oak. This combo is a real winner (if not especially inventive). I'm usually a purist and don't get into vatting, but I'll definitely be doing this again. When I finished this pour I started all over again with the 10 to the 17 and then mixed the two again...everything was a lot sweeter the second time around, but this was just a great night of bourbon tasting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickert Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 After trying both seperately, I decided to vat ER17 '08 & ERSB together 1:1 to see what I came up with...I was very pleased with the results: ER10 & 17 Vat.... Nose: Maple sugar...woody but so sweet First Sip: The flavor almost knocked me over it was so big...much more so than either alone...rye, very strong tea with cream, and sweet maple Finish: The tea flavor continues and is joined by that wonderful soft oak. This combo is a real winner (if not especially inventive). I'm usually a purist and don't get into vatting, but I'll definitely be doing this again. When I finished this pour I started all over again with the 10 to the 17 and then mixed the two again...everything was a lot sweeter the second time around, but this was just a great night of bourbon tasting!As a person who has tried Andy's vatting, I can vouch for it quality. I have had lots of ER10SB and I love it. I have also enjoyed the ER17. However, when presented with a mystery blind taste, I found many new flavors in the vatting. For me, ER17 is very good if not a bit predictable. ER10SB is an excellent pour and on the high end of my rating scale. When vatted, it provides a top notch pour that is synergistic. The resulting 1.5L of bourbon is worth much more than than the $95 it cost to produce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnbowljoe Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I have only tried vatting a couple of times. I have to agree with Ben and say Andy came up with a real winner with the combining of ERSB and ER17. I've had it a couple of times, and it is very good. Great job Andy! Thanks for sharing it with us. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiahi Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I'm new to the world of Bourbon...but I once was a groomsmen at a good buddy's wedding. He gave the best man, the other groomsmen and I three different bottles of scotch - Johnnie Walker Black, Glenfiddich and The Balvenie Double Wood. After getting a buzz, I proposed to my fellow groomsmen that we crack our bottles and make a "Groomsmen Blend." 1:1:1...tasted great. of course by the time we mixed it all, we had all drank a considerable amount of beer, so I wouldn't say we had quite the discerning palates at that point... :slappin: On a semi-related note, I once went to a bar that had a giant bottle of WR with bing cherries filling up the bottom 1/4th of the bottle. I didn't try it then, but I always rememberd it. Once I started getting into Bourbon, out of curiousity I decided to give it try, I took an empty Jose 1800 bottle (because it was the only empty liquor bottle I had with a wide enough bung hole to fit cherries in) and I put fresh Bing Cherries in and topped it off with MM. I let is sit for about a month. It tinted the bourbon red...it looked like a golden-hued cherry 7up. The taste was surprisingly good...I think because MM is already a bourbon on the sweet side, it really complemented it. When the bottle got to about 1/4 from the bottom, I added a few fresh cherries and than I topped it off with KC, and let that sit for another month. That tasted even better. So I guess in a sense I have tried bourbon vatting with a bing cherry infusion. Once that gets down to about 1/4 left, I think I'll try topping it off with WT101 next time... Does this sound like blasphemy to all you purists and aficionados of KSBW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmeox Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I think that you may be surprised to learn that most folks here would say:It's your bourbon so drink it however you will enjoy it.After my weekly bowling league, I've been known to enjoy a BT on the rocks with a couple maraschino cherries bathing in it. To me, the cherries really bring out the vanilla and oak in the bourbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramiel McHinson Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I had a bottle of Elijah Craig 18 that was a tad too woody for me so it was sitting on the shelf as an art piece and not getting much attention. I decided to try the EC18 with some EC12 I recently bought and to me it completely rescued the EC18. The ratio was 1 EC12 to 3 EC18. The EC12 toned down the wood notes and made for a great drink without modifying the great taste of EC Bourbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polyamnesia Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 here's one that's blowing my socks off...(no measuring...would bobby flay?!:grin: )ok, more or less 55/45 of WILD TURKEY RYE and WELLER ANTIQUE...appearance:LONG staying power pearly necklace that simply drops whole after 30 seconds into 'sheets' (like a transparent rainbow of gradations)...then finally the cloud bursts and big, slow leggy drops. i love the atmospheric battles between rye and cornnose:the rye is upfront, leathery, old cedar box...alcohol is present but so woven into the aforementioned characteristics. can't overtly find the weller here, but it somehow enhanced what WT rye didn't do on it's own...nice!taste:wow. i am getting what i wouldn't expect (and would never be able to reference had i never sampled it...): this is baby saz on steroids. just as sweet. just as luscious. and costs less. yet:skep: , on a second sip, i get more of that Wild Turkey nostril burn that eclipses the sweet, chewiness i had just gotten. wild weller. old turkey antique...finish and overall sense:woody, dry linger certainly distances any relation to baby saz...not too long, not too short...both of these pours, on their own, are simply perfection for what they are...and more for what they cost. vatted, i get an almost the-whole-is-greater-than-the parts...but i simply believe i get a unique, third bottling/pour that compares and is equal to the two bottlings alone. in a sense, the best vatting i've experienced. i need to try this again, too, with a drop or two of water.both of these REALLY open up with a MINIMAL drop of water...no virtual proof loss, just a flowering out of what's locked in both of these very stellar, admirable bottlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickert Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 I tried Old Overholt for the first time today. This was the first whiskey I have ever had where my first inclination was to pour it out. I was torn as to what I should do with the 1 oz. I had about .5 oz left of WTR101, so I did risked it and combined the two. Don't get me wrong, it is not a match made in heaven, but it did make the OO tolerable by adding many of fine rye distinctions I thought it was originally missing. Is it a vatting sucess story for others to try? No. Did it salvate 1oz of horrible liquor? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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