Rittenhouse Rye BIB in KY

[cowdery]

Bettye Jo,

I assumed the same as you did, that when Heaven Hill had finished the expansion at Bernheim it would stop having Brown-Forman make any product. I guess this means the expansion is finished and on-line.

That means we should start to see Bernheim-made Rittenhouse in about 2013.

Although they weren't selling it as Rittenhouse until the 1990s, Heaven Hill always made rye whiskey at DSP-31 in Bardstown and of course it was a Beam family recipe. In Spring of 1993, Heaven Hill acquired about 70 brands from United Distillers/Guinness, several of which it turned around and sold to David Sherman (now Luxco). My records don't show if Rittenhouse was on that list, but I suspect it was. My records do show that United ultimately sold everything it acquired when it bought Glenmore, some in 1993 to Heaven Hill, the rest in 1995 to Barton.

So Heaven Hill made Rittenhouse at DSP-31 from 1993 until the fire in 1996. Their original production deal was with Jim Beam, for about a year, and presumably that included rye too. Thereafter, Brown-Forman was their principal supplier. They bought Bernheim in 1999 and spent some time retuning it. Gradually they took over their own bourbon production, both traditional rye recipe and also wheat for Old Fitz, which they acquired at the same time as the distillery, but the rye production and some bourbon production stayed at BF until (apparently) last year because of the limited capacity at Bernheim.

One of Craig's great regrets is that they can't make jug yeast at Bernheim and have to use dry. Grandpa Earl was Craig's primary teacher and his first lesson was yeast-making.

My point is that these recipes are constantly being tweaked, especially when the distillery changes. Bernheim is very different from the old Bardstown plant that was designed and built by Bettye Jo's great grandfather. Its fermenters, for example, are 123,800 gallons each. The plant originally had five of them. It now has nine.

Heaven Hill bought and adapted Bernheim, but they didn't design it. In fact, the design was based on a big grain whiskey distillery in Scotland and was never, in the minds of even some of the people who built it, quite right for making bourbon. Parker and Craig made a lot of changes. Parker still hates the place, in part because he doesn't like going to Louisville, but it's mostly Craig's baby now (he oversaw the expansion) and he has made peace with its flaws.

[boone]

:grin:

Bettye Jo,

I assumed the same as you did, that when Heaven Hill had finished the expansion at Bernheim it would stop having Brown-Forman make any product. I guess this means the expansion is finished and on-line.

That means we should start to see Bernheim-made Rittenhouse in about 2013.

Although they weren't selling it as Rittenhouse until the 1990s, Heaven Hill always made rye whiskey at DSP-31 in Bardstown and of course it was a Beam family recipe. In Spring of 1993, Heaven Hill acquired about 70 brands from United Distillers/Guinness, several of which it turned around and sold to David Sherman (now Luxco). My records don't show if Rittenhouse was on that list, but I suspect it was. My records do show that United ultimately sold everything it acquired when it bought Glenmore, some in 1993 to Heaven Hill, the rest in 1995 to Barton.

So Heaven Hill made Rittenhouse at DSP-31 from 1993 until the fire in 1996. Their original production deal was with Jim Beam, for about a year, and presumably that included rye too. Thereafter, Brown-Forman was their principal supplier. They bought Bernheim in 1999 and spent some time retuning it. Gradually they took over their own bourbon production, both traditional rye recipe and also wheat for Old Fitz, which they acquired at the same time as the distillery, but the rye production and some bourbon production stayed at BF until (apparently) last year because of the limited capacity at Bernheim.

One of Craig's great regrets is that they can't make jug yeast at Bernheim and have to use dry. Grandpa Earl was Craig's primary teacher and his first lesson was yeast-making.

My point is that these recipes are constantly being tweaked, especially when the distillery changes. Heaven Hill bought and adapted Bernheim, but they didn't design it. In fact, the design was based on a big grain whiskey distillery in Scotland and was never, in the minds of even some of the people who built it, quite right for making bourbon. Parker and Craig made a lot of changes. Parker still hates the place, in part because he doesn't like going to Louisville, but it's mostly Craig's baby now (he oversaw the expansion) and he has made peace with its flaws.

Good Job Chuck :grin: :grin:

You write this post as if I didn't know most of it's content :grin: :grin: I am inside riding this train :grin: :grin: :grin: very little gets by me on production in bottling.

I'm pretty sure you are right about the timeline on the Rittenhouse. I ran the Rittenhouse label when I was label machne operator (7 years) prior to my maintenance job of 8 + years....my job required me to check the papers to make sure the bonded Rittenhouse DSP matched what's on the paper :grin: :grin: :grin: From habit, I still do this every time I see a bond up :bigeyes: :bigeyes: :grin: (on my shift)...

I alerted management of the use of old labels on the Rittenhouse BIB (backs) getting it corrected to the right DSP :grin: :grin: :grin: This, of course, with the help from Roger who was the first to actutallly notice the error...I went to the label room and nearly all the old labels were still on the shelf...all were thrown out and replaced with the correct information.

I've talked with Craig in great detail about what he's done at Bernheim. He was real excited about this new expansion :grin: :grin: He is the first to admit that it was going to be a real challenge but he knew that he could do it:grin: :grin: Matter of factly, as his big expansion was going on he came to visit us while we were in the process of getting our new J-line into production...I gave him the full tour from my point of view :grin: :grin: :grin: That was a real pleasure:grin:

Craig made some major modifications to Bernheim after start up there...his biggest venture was having the abiltity to turn things "by hand"...Thats a long story but in short he wanted the ability to cut off and add at his discrescion to meet "his" specifications.

I think the world of Craig and I let him know it every time I see him :grin: :grin:

As for the recipe...it's still the same that was taught to him...passed from father to son....everyone tweaks stuff :grin: :grin: doesn't change the original concept....

To venture OT here just abit...On a totally different note but :grin: yet the same kind stuff....I have a old, old, old oatmeal and raisin cookie recipe that I found in a very old, old, old recipe book....The recipe was written on a very old yellow piece of paper in what looks to be feather and ink writing....:grin: :grin: :grin: No temperature for the oven...they used wood stoves back then...no temp gauges...no--how long to cook....everyting is even...1 cup, two cups, 1 tablespoon, two tablespoons...I was so taken by this recipe I bought the old book just to get that piece of paper with this recipe :grin: :grin:

I took it home, and made the first batch :grin: :grin: This recipe was awesome! Over time, I have tweaked this recipe adding a few things that I chose to "make it better" :grin: :grin: :grin:

I still call this the "the old recipe" cause I really can't call it mine ... cause the original and bulk of what I use to make them ---and it's secret ingredient--- was created by someone else. I just helped it...just a tad...

I have to make six dozen of these cookies when I take them to work :grin: :grin: I have to make enough for everyone because they get really upset when I don't have enough...that's how good these cookies are!

and...I don't give the recipe :skep: :grin: :grin:

I'll make a batch for ya during KFB :grin: :grin:

Sadly the author of this recipe didn't write her name

[cowdery]

I certainly did not mean to suggest you don't know this stuff. You know how I get when I start to tell a story. :)

Mostly, the first paragraph was directed to you. The rest was just me unspooling what I know about the subject.

The funny thing about the Kentucky distillers is that everyone always talks about how friendly they all are with each other, and they genuinely are, but I talk to all of them and they will all sort of whisper in my ear things they want me to know about the other guys. In some cases, they have heard things and hope I can find out the truth. In other cases they're just making mischief, stirring the pot a little. Obviously, the stuff I reported about the rye being made for HH at BF came from highly placed sources at BF and is consistent with everything Craig has told me.

I'm always on board for a good cookie.

[kickert]

I just did a side by side with my bottle of Ritt and with a sample from Chris. The difference is obvious, but not as pronounced as I was expecting. I get more gingerbread out of mine and more of a chemical, soapy taste out of his. If I had his bottle, I would certainly thing something was amiss, but I would probably still be able tell it was Ritt.

[mozilla]

Craig's statement could be interpreted in a number of ways. What it makes me wonder is whether the new, Bernheim-made Ritt will be made with a different recipie than what is currently on the shelves as Rittenhouse Rye?

If two distillers make the same whisky...it will never taste the same. Even if they do everything the same.

[Gov]

This stuff is incredibly excellent!! My favorite cheap rye!

[JamesW]

This stuff is incredibly excellent!! My favorite cheap rye!

Just got my first bottle and I completely agree. It beats almost any whiskey in this price range. $18 and I love it!

[unclebunk]

Just got my first bottle and I completely agree. It beats almost any whiskey in this price range. $18 and I love it!

Isn't it great? I'd put it up against any whiskey under $20 and I've found that many whiskies costing much more don't hold a candle to Rittenhouse BIB. You wouldn't believe the number of people I've turned on to Rittenhouse Rye, and to a person they never believe me when I tell them the actual price!

[JamesW]

Isn't it great? I'd put it up against any whiskey under $20 and I've found that many whiskies costing much more don't hold a candle to Rittenhouse BIB. You wouldn't believe the number of people I've turned on to Rittenhouse Rye, and to a person they never believe me when I tell them the actual price!

I'm blown away truly! I was not expecting this when I bought it. It is the finest whiskey in that range. I'm glad I finally found it, I need to stock up!

[tommyboy38]

I'm a fan too and was planning on grabbing a bottle but my lcal place was out of it. crap!!

[JamesW]

Just picked up 2 more for the bunker to be safe. I can't believe that in 2 days the bottles went up a buck! They still have 4 on the shelf, I feel like I should grab them just in case people start realizing its real value. :grin:

[JamesW]

Just wanted to mention how good this is again. Sitting here drinking a nice pour and can't believe all this flavor in such a young and inexpensive whiskey.

btw- anyone know if they add color or anything to this. I assume the rules of bourbonium don't apply and they could do it. Are there similar rules governing rye etc... This has a lot of color for a 4 year old.

[keng]

I pondered the the redish hue myself while drinking this and was amazed at the depth of the color in this. I didn't even think that they would have added color; thought that would be left to scotchs. I'll try to remember today and give them a call, maybe they'll have a good response.

[cowdery]

The only difference between the rules regarding straight rye whiskey and the rules regarding straight bourbon whiskey is the mash bill. Every other rule is exactly the same. American straight rye whiskey gets all of its color from the wood. Coloring cannot be added.

[JamesW]

The only difference between the rules regarding straight rye whiskey and the rules regarding straight bourbon whiskey is the mash bill. Every other rule is exactly the same. American straight rye whiskey gets all of its color from the wood. Coloring cannot be added.

[MikeK]

Rittenhouse Rye BIB has been readily availble up here in MA for the last few years, but has totally dried up over the last 6 mos. The distributor told me (for whatever THAT's worth) that all the allocations up this way got paired back in a major way and he claimed it was due to HH sending a lot of this product overseas. Any confirmation on that?

On another topic, I've found the product to be reasonably consistant, and very good, over the past 5 years, but the bottles I've bought this year (from KY and up here) were totally different, there was a LOT of citrus to it, much like if one had made a Rock and Rye cocktail. It was amusing at first but after the first glass deemed to be uncool. Anyone else seeing a different profile this year?

[funknik]

On another topic, I've found the product to be reasonably consistant, and very good, over the past 5 years, but the bottles I've bought this year (from KY and up here) were totally different, there was a LOT of citrus to it, much like if one had made a Rock and Rye cocktail. It was amusing at first but after the first glass deemed to be uncool. Anyone else seeing a different profile this year?

[sailor22]

I have been reading with amazement all the posts about how good and what a bargain the Rit BiB is. That hasn't been my experience at all.

This year I purchased one on line and received on as a gift that was also an on line purchase. One from California and one from a mid west location and both are Pine Sol and Turpentine. Almost undrinkable. Everyone who has tasted them has the same reaction .... Bleaccchh! No one ever wants a second sip. Honestly, I haven't been able to give it away.

[nor02lei]

I did have a side by side with WTR and Rittenhouse BIB yesterday. Very big difference and the Turkey were lighter in every sense and very pale in collar. Both were quit spicy but RBIB had a nice taste of hard rye bread as well. Must say I liked the Bib much better and it did taste a lot older as well.

Leif

[edo]

I brought a bottle of Rittenhouse BIB and a Russell's Reserve rye to a BBQ at a friend's house when I was in Illinois (purchased there too) in August. I guess about 6-8 people ended up sampling both. Both got big thumbs up from everybody that tried them. I agree with Leif's description of the Rit. I wouldn't say I liked it better than the WTRR, but it did seem hardier.

[ethangsmith]

I just bought a bottle of the BIB down in Maryland for $16.99. They have 2 or 3 left. It is the ONLY place I can find it. The PA State Stores do not even carry it and can not order it! It is some FINE rye for the price. Now knowing that it is truly hard to find (and not just me going to the wrong places) and the flavor may change, I may run the 2 hours back down there and snag the rest of them!

[DanG]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread...

I just bought some Rittenhouse online here in Germany last week and I opened 1 of the two bottles that same night. Here's the one I got:

http://www.whisky24.de/tws/product_info.php?info=p14315_Rittenhouse-Rye.html

At €19.90, that's about $27-28... not cheap, but American whiskeys aren't cheap here. Although I can get Four Roses YL for €13.50 in the supermarket.

I found it really tasty. A German friend of mine came over, one who is very big into waters of life as well, and it was his first rye as well. We both found it really kind of interestingly fruity despite being drier than the bourbons we had that night... Elijah Craig 12 and Blanton's Special Reserve (the export-only green label). I liked it a lot...

A question though -- the BIBs have it written right on the label, right? So what I got isn't the BIB, just "regular" Rittenhouse Rye? I like it all the same, just wanted to know.

[wadewood]

A question though -- the BIBs have it written right on the label, right? So what I got isn't the BIB, just "regular" Rittenhouse Rye? I like it all the same, just wanted to know.

Just checked and the label in the US do say Bottled in Bond. So you probably have the regular Rittenhouse. Is it 100 proof?

[DanG]

Just checked and the label in the US do say Bottled in Bond. So you probably have the regular Rittenhouse. Is it 100 proof?

No, it's the 80-proof variety...

[unclebunk]

No, it's the 80-proof variety...

Very good just the same but seek out the BIB if you can, as it has a fuller taste and texture that's hard to beat for the price.