Beam releases a new Old Crow?

[edo]

Well, how is it?

[JeffRenner]

I went to my local liquor store, where I've been asking about this release every week or two since I found out about it, and the owner told me it had come and sold out, and he can't get more. His other store never got any at all. He thinks it's because of a f**k-up (as he put it) in the state pricing, which has it the same as the regular 3yo Old Crow, $7.97.

So has anyone else got it? How is it?

[OscarV]

Hey Jeff, go to Village Party Store in Saline, I saw a couple on the shelf last week and they sell at state min.

813 West Michigan Ave 48176

Phone 429-4422

[JeffRenner]

Hey Jeff, go to Village Party Store in Saline, I saw a couple on the shelf last week and they sell at state min.

Thanks for the tip, Oscar. I was just in Saline Saturday afternoon!

[p_elliott]

FishnbowlJoe took one to Joshua's birthday party a couple of weeks back. I couldn't get him nailed down on a review but the drift I got was they didn't care for it. Joe, guys comments?

[TNbourbon]

By popular demand -- :skep: ? -- proof:

Here's a comparison I did some years back comparing Jim Beam White (4yo) and Jim Beam White 7yo, which is germane to this whiskey:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=73766#post73766

As someone earlier suggested, this is 4yo Jim Beam (thus white label) at 86 proof (7yo), so a cross between the ones I described.

The corn/cinnamon taste/nose is dominant. BUT -- and, a big point! -- the 86 proof gives some ooomph! to this bourbon. It was $10.99 locally (Oscar reported a $7.97 price! in Michigan). At that price, it's less than the lowest-level JB. It's a better whiskey.

I've sampled it tonight (in addition to neat out of the bottle) over ice, with ginger ale, and cola. For those purposes, it's fine. It's bourbon. It's $10.99 (did I mention that already?) -- the only way to get lower-priced bourbon around here is to buy 4yo, generic Heaven Hill bottlings (which I frequently do).

If you don't keep a 'kitchen whiskey' in the house, this probably won't interest you. If you do, though, you should check it out. Pace Martha S., but it's a good thing.

[Joshua]

Mister Admin Snowed In Fishing and Bowling Joe... am I crazy or is that a different bottle then you brought? It was a long night, but I remember searching for the proof somewhere on the bottle, only to find it spelled out in small print... or was that the 77 old crow we were looking for a proof on?

[cowdery]

"Distilled to a higher proof" seems unlikely.

[jbewley]

"Distilled to a higher proof" seems unlikely.

Yeah, "Diluted slightly less than you'd expect" doesn't quite have the same ring.

At some point, someone needs to write a quick web app to automatically create text for bourbon labels. Sort of a madlib gone bourbon: "In [17/18something], [insert Name Here], the first person to ever invent whiskey, created a special recipe using [insert dubious ingredient] and pure spring water from [insert quaint water source name here]. We painstakingly preserved that recipe from [17/18something] until today, where we buy random bulk whiskey and bottle it for you."

Maybe I went a little wrong there at the end..

- Jeff

[cowdery]

Many years ago, just for fun, I wrote a BASIC program to name housing developments. You know, "Golden Oaks," "Hanover Estates," "Waterford Village."

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

[sku]

Yeah, "Diluted slightly less than you'd expect" doesn't quite have the same ring.

At some point, someone needs to write a quick web app to automatically create text for bourbon labels. Sort of a madlib gone bourbon: "In [17/18something], [insert Name Here], the first person to ever invent whiskey, created a special recipe using [insert dubious ingredient] and pure spring water from [insert quaint water source name here]. We painstakingly preserved that recipe from [17/18something] until today, where we buy random bulk whiskey and bottle it for you."

Maybe I went a little wrong there at the end..

- Jeff

Excellent! :lol: :lol:

[TNbourbon]

"Distilled to a higher proof" seems unlikely.

Yeah, "Diluted slightly less than you'd expect" doesn't quite have the same ring...

I was tick(l)ed by that, too, which is why I showed the back label. I also puzzled a bit over the fact they finally are bottling Old Crow at an age that doesn't require an age statement, yet they almost brag about it being the minimal one at which to do that. Odd.

[cowdery]

I was tick(l)ed by that, too, which is why I showed the back label. I also puzzled a bit over the fact they finally are bottling Old Crow at an age that doesn't require an age statement, yet they almost brag about it being the minimal one at which to do that. Odd.

Unless they have changed something in the last two years, since I got this information, Bookers and Baker's come off the still at 125 proof, Knob comes off at 130, and Jim Beam white and black come off at 135. Booker's and Baker's have no water added and go into the barrel at 125. Knob and Jim have water added so they too can go into the barrel at 125.

Ditto OGD/BH, which is also a different mash bill. It comes off at 127 and gets diluted slightly to 125 for entry.

I assume Crow is still the Beam, not OGD, mash bill. They could be coming off at 140 for Old Crow, I guess. Anything short of 160 is legal.

[RamblinWreck007]

Yeah, "Diluted slightly less than you'd expect" doesn't quite have the same ring.

At some point, someone needs to write a quick web app to automatically create text for bourbon labels. Sort of a madlib gone bourbon: "In [17/18something], [insert Name Here], the first person to ever invent whiskey, created a special recipe using [insert dubious ingredient] and pure spring water from [insert quaint water source name here]. We painstakingly preserved that recipe from [17/18something] until today, where we buy random bulk whiskey and bottle it for you."

Maybe I went a little wrong there at the end..

- Jeff

Post of the Month.

[Martian]

Excellent. I love trying new things.

[ShewDawg]

Can't believe it but it has made it's way up to NJ already and I just picked myself up a jug. I would have gotten a fifth, but the jug was the smallest they had on the shelves.

I am quite surprised that Old Crow Reserve is already in NJ, not that this is a huge release, but anything new is always interesting none the less, and an improved Crow is a nice step in the right direction. The whiskey guy at the store mentioned that Beam is trying to pit this against Evan Williams Black, so it will be fun to size these two up together.

[Gillman]

Chuck, that is very interesting about the proof differences, I didn't recall that and must have forgotten your earlier posting. Since bourbon choice is fairly restricted in Ontario, I have been been buying more Beam bourbons as the years pass, all those you mentioned except Booker's and Baker's although I know these well also. I also know Basil Hayden and OGD well but will set them aside for the purpose of the discussion even though they fit into the schema I will propose.

I find that the Beam signature, that yeasty-like note we often discuss, is most pronounced in the products which have either the lowest or highest proof off the still. True, aging length is normally a variable and one might object that it cuts across what I will say below. But we can disregard aging I think since e.g., some Booker's and Baker are pretty close to Beam Black in age, and also, I have had the 7 year old White and find little palate difference from the standard White.

And so, Beam White and Black - high stilling proof - have that taste in abundance but so do Booker's and Baker which have low stilling proof. But Knob Creek has it much less and always did (median-stilling proof).

Can it be that 130 off the still is the sweet spot? Or is it the fact that Knob Creek gets a full 9 years aging, which is more than all the others get (although not a lot more than Baker's or Beam Black really)? Maybe it is a bit of both.

I can't immediately see the rationale for these stilling-out differences since all the Beam products (OGD and BH too) share a similar palate by my lights. I think again the aging process, perhaps due to those insulated temperature-controlled warehouses (although they use some ironclad, I know), has relatively little influence on the Beam palate. Even at nine years you don't get a big smoky palate in KC for example.

That yeast - if it is that, or co-products produced from action of that yeast in the ferment - is the main driver of the Beam palate IMO. I actually like it now, it reminds me of a rye whiskey palate often.

Gary

[scratchline]

Saw a bottle here in Cambridge Ma. 40+ bucks?!!!

[OscarV]

Saw a bottle here in Cambridge Ma. 40+ bucks?!!!

No way.

If so, I'll ship you all the MI bottles you want @ $7.99 per.

[cowdery]

Saw a bottle here in Cambridge Ma. 40+ bucks?!!!

Unbelievable! How much is Maker's Mark? $100?

[smokinjoe]

I picked up a bottle this week at $10.99. Not a bad little pour. Beam-ish signatures, for sure. But, I swear I get a little OGD in there, too. I know that doesn't make sense, with different mash bills and all..... Definitely young-ish. Sweet-ish. Pleasant-ish. Actually, a little Irish-ish. A nice little pop of flavor at the end, that does give a jump-start to the finish, though short it may be. At the end of the day, this new iteration isn't going to overcome the damage that Beam has done to Dr. Crow's good name these last several decades, but at least it puts a little polish on this regrettably sullied brand.

[cowdery]

Here's the official blurb from Beam Global:

Old Crow Reserve is an 86 proof, four-year-old Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. It’s set aside in the barrelhouse for a little bit longer than our original Old Crow® Bourbon - which is aged 3 years and bottled at 80 proof. The suggested retail price for Crow Reserve is only $10-$12. We’ve seen lots of growth within the Standard Bourbon segment and Old Crow will stand out as a great value brand.

I'm going to make a prediction. That back label probably was a goof. It says “distilled to a higher proof†but probably should have just said, "bottled at a higher proof." I'll try to get them to admit the flub but it may take a while to work my way up to someone in the organization who understands the question.

[TNbourbon]

...I'm going to make a prediction. That back label probably was a goof. It says “distilled to a higher proof” but probably should have just said, "bottled at a higher proof." I'll try to get them to admit the flub but it may take a while to work my way up to someone in the organization who understands the question.

[JeffRenner]

potatoes (Dan Quayle was right -- you can look it up!)

Ah, Dan was wrong; he was spelling the singular "potato!":grin:

I finally picked up a bottle of this last week (didn't have to go to Saline, but thanks for the tip, Oscar). I might try to put together some actual tasting notes, but my quick and dirty impression is that it's a helluva bargain at $7.97, but I think it's pretty clear that that price is a State of Michigan f**k-up, to use the quaint expression of my local liquor emporium owner.

It has a strong, almost camphoraceous nose. Not at all sweet. Palate is clunky and bangs around a bit, and is rather hot, especially in the finish, with little complexity or finesse. But it's lost that feinty character of the 3-y-o, which is definitely good.

It's been years since I've had JB white, so while it may have a family resemblance, it's lost on me. I suppose a head-to-head comparison would be useful. Maybe I'll pick up a 50 ml and do that.

I mostly drink my bourbon with a splash or on the rocks, not mixed, and this is more suited to mixing, so I doubt that I'll be replacing it when I finish it.

All in all, though, it's a disappointment, as it is not what I had hoped it would be - a return to the style of 12-13 years ago when it was last a 4-y-o. That was, as a have posted here before, a lovely little, almost delicate bourbon, but not at all insipid, that was just what I wanted at times. That probably was not JB distillate, though. I still have a couple of pints of that, I think.

[cowdery]

This is probably as close as Beam will get to admitting they screwed up:

"Yes the bottle label is a preliminary label and that information will be changing. We do not disclose our distillation proof, but meet the Bourbon requirements and are bottled at a higher proof than Old Crow. Thanks for your keen eye!"

I gave my contact some hell about hiding behind the proprietary information shield, especially since their own 'whiskey professor,' Bernie Lubbers, volunteered all of the distillation proofs on a press tour of the distillery at Clermont about two years ago. It was gentle hell because she's a nice young woman and it's not her fault that she has a compulsively paranoid client.