New Maker's Mark Expression in 2010

[craigthom]

When I last used the phrase (And if I were good-looking and talented, I'd be a a movie star.) at work, several of the women responded in chorus: "Come-on John, you're talented."

Ouch! That stings worse because they mean well.

[ErichPryde]

Paul, they aren't further aging it in toasted barrels, they are adding toasted staves to the whiskey. I think the reason cowdery asked where the objectors were is because adding toasted staves to impart additional "age" is "cheating." I don't really give a crap if it's cheating or not, I hope they made a superior product here that tastes good.

The talk of wood chips actually reminds me of something- my brother-in-law was in saudi arabia for a while, and there wasn't any alcohol around. He was in the oil business at the time, and a good number of his co-workers would pester him about bringing Jack Daniels wood chips back from the US when he visited home. They were making moonshine, and adding to wood chips to give it some sort of a whiskey flavor.

....I have no idea how it turned out... :skep:

I believe that it would still be bourbon, just not straight bourbon.

I was kind of thinking the same thing. bourbon, straight bourbon, I'll try it either way.

[kickert]

I believe that it would still be bourbon, just not straight bourbon.

In my reading of the regs, there is nothing to disqualify it from being a straight bourbon. The term straight only refers to the length and location of aging:

[bourbons], which have been stored in the type of oak containers

prescribed, for a period of 2 years or more shall be further designated as

"straight"; for example, "straight bourbon whisky", and

[bourbons], except that it was produced from a fermented mash of less than 51

percent of any one type of grain, and stored for a period of 2 years or more in

charred new oak containers shall be designated merely as "straight whisky".

No other whiskies may be designated "straight". "Straight whisky" includes

mixtures of straight whiskies of the same type produced in the same State.

The only part of the regs that address wood are in the initial wording where it says bourbon must be "stored at not more than 125° proof in

charred new oak containers"

[MMDistiller]

Random thoughts on this thread:

With just one expression and (until recently made public) very little experimentation, is the job of Master Distiller at MM the most plain vanilla of the bourbon distillers?

__________

I understand your comment. But it is a bit more challenging than that as I also am the plant manager and oversee every aspect of the operation (maintenance, distillery, QC, warehouse, bottling, security, formulation, tours, etc.). And I am the first to acknowledge that all the real credit goes to the 85+ MM employees that on a daily basis cook the grain, roll the barrels, dip the bottles, give the tours, etc., making our distillery a great place to work and Maker's Mark a wonderful bourbon. This is not the norm for most MD's so I can understand why you might think of my job as plain vanilla.

But you have to admit that a lot of folks like plain vanilla. My friend that owns the barrel company once said that he thought of vanilla as the catnip for humans....just about everybody loves it. We have been very fortunate at Maker's as we bottle and sell everything we have on hand; so as the Master Distiller my first priority is to make sure the popular plain vanilla is always there! More vanilla anyone?

The exciting news...we are bringing out another flavor. How does french vanilla sound? Ha, Ha! Plain vanilla or not...being the Master Distiller is still great honor. Thanks for your comment and being a bourbon fan!

[TomH]

I don't know about the wine industry, but Compass Box used staves with their initial Spice Tree Scotch which was well received by many folks....at least until the powers that be said they couldn't call the product scotch if they used that process. I really don't care about the process used to produce a spirit, just what does it taste like (could be why I bought the last 6 Spice Trees I found on the shelf at a local store a year ago).

Tom

Now that I know it is "Barrel Finished with Toasted Oak Staves", not re-barreled in toasted oak I'm less interested than I was before. Didn't the wine industry try this and abandon it because of unsatisfactory results?

I'll try a bottle anyhow, but it isn't something I'm real jazzed about.

[callmeox]

The exciting news...we are bringing out another flavor. How does french vanilla sound? Ha, Ha! Plain vanilla or not...being the Master Distiller is still great honor. Thanks for your comment and being a bourbon fan!

I'm glad that you didn't take my comment as a negative and I'm sure that you work your ass off at MM wearing many hats. I was simply comparing the single product line from MM to the various experimental and yearly expressions from Buffalo Trace, Four Roses and others.

When you can sell every drop that you distill I understand that innovation isn't necessarily a top priority. It is good to see MM expanding their line into something more crafty.

Can you expand on the comment that you made in an interview in Malt Advocate in the last year that the black wax isn't dead, just on hiatus? :grin:

[Josh]

[

I understand your comment. But it is a bit more challenging than that as I also am the plant manager and oversee every aspect of the operation (maintenance, distillery, QC, warehouse, bottling, security, formulation, tours, etc.). And I am the first to acknowledge that all the real credit goes to the 85+ MM employees that on a daily basis cook the grain, roll the barrels, dip the bottles, give the tours, etc., making our distillery a great place to work and Maker's Mark a wonderful bourbon. This is not the norm for most MD's so I can understand why you might think of my job as plain vanilla.

But you have to admit that a lot of folks like plain vanilla. My friend that owns the barrel company once said that he thought of vanilla as the catnip for humans....just about everybody loves it. We have been very fortunate at Maker's as we bottle and sell everything we have on hand; so as the Master Distiller my first priority is to make sure the popular plain vanilla is always there! More vanilla anyone?

The exciting news...we are bringing out another flavor. How does french vanilla sound? Ha, Ha! Plain vanilla or not...being the Master Distiller is still great honor. Thanks for your comment and being a bourbon fan!

Thanks for your great comments and interaction, Kevin. You've been a model of how a master distiller (or any other commercial interest) should interact with the members of this community.

I'm very much looking forward to trying this new product. I hope to see it on Michigan shelves in a few months! For now, I think I just might go out and pick up 1.75 ltr of MM tomorrow.

[jburlowski]

In my reading of the regs, there is nothing to disqualify it from being a straight bourbon. The term straight only refers to the length and location of aging:

[bourbons], which have been stored in the type of oak containers

prescribed, for a period of 2 years or more shall be further designated as

"straight"; for example, "straight bourbon whisky", and

[bourbons], except that it was produced from a fermented mash of less than 51

percent of any one type of grain, and stored for a period of 2 years or more in

charred new oak containers shall be designated merely as "straight whisky".

No other whiskies may be designated "straight". "Straight whisky" includes

mixtures of straight whiskies of the same type produced in the same State.

The only part of the regs that address wood are in the initial wording where it says bourbon must be "stored at not more than 125° proof in

charred new oak containers"

I was responding to an earlier post (apparently since deleted) over whether this could be called boubon or not. Since the reg definition of straight whiskey refers to aging in charred barrels, it would seem that aging in other than charred barrels might violate the regs. Perhaps this is an overly cautious reading, but in this MM case (and, IIRC, in earlier BT re-barreling experiments) the product is refered to as "bourbon" or "whiskey" but not as straight.

I'll leave it to Chuck and others who are more conversant with the detailed interpretation of the regs for a more definitive answer.

[kickert]

I was responding to an earlier post (apparently since deleted) over whether this could be called boubon or not. Since the reg definition of straight whiskey refers to aging in charred barrels, it would seem that aging in other than charred barrels might violate the regs. Perhaps this is an overly cautious reading, but in this MM case (and, IIRC, in earlier BT re-barreling experiments) the product is refered to as "bourbon" or "whiskey" but not as straight.

I'll leave it to Chuck and others who are more conversant with the detailed interpretation of the regs for a more definitive answer.

Actually it is only the "Bourbon" definition that refers to charred barrels. The "Straight" definition is silent on the matter.

[DeanSheen]

If Bud Light didn't already use the term "Drinkability" in their advertisments it would be perfect for MM.

Perfect.

Don't mean to be a fanboy but I really don't like the stuff. It's not a bourbon of last resort for me because if the place I am at has nothing better than Makers I'm more than happy to have Tequila/Irish Whiskey/Scotch instead.

[Bourbon Geek]

The re-barreling thing can work... see WSRMC SO, BTEC, etc.

Anybody know where MM gets their barrels? The B-F cooperage claims they may been making toasted barrels for some time.

[NeoTexan]

Just got this e-mail:

Some of you may have heard the rumor that Kevin Smith, Master Distiller for Maker's Mark, has been working on a secret project here at the distillery. You heard right.

After years of prodding from Maker's Mark brand friends, bourbon lovers, taste-makers and, yes, even you Ambassadors, Kevin and I looked at each other and said, "Well, let's see what we can do."

Make no mistake, we weren't interested in finding which barrel held at the right light on the proper floor of a special warehouse could be packaged and shipped to stores nationwide. What we were trying to do was go after a specific taste. We had very narrow parameters and went after this new idea the way my dad did when he burned the old Samuels' family mash bill and created Maker's Mark.

Almost a year and a half later, Kevin comes back to me and says he thinks he's done it.

Boy, has he ever. Totally amazing new stuff. I mean wow. WOW!

The first step is to get blow back from the bourbon opinionaters, journalists, spirits bloggers, whisky club organizers and, yes, from our Ambassadors. Think of this as either a gut-check or, more bluntly as a disaster check.

Here's where our taste-making Ambassadors come in. You have already received your invite to Thoroughbreds and Redheads weekend, April 9 and 10. I want you to know that we'll be sampling our new product at the distillery for the first time on April 10, Ambassador Homecoming Day. Even if you decide not to spend the whole weekend with us, we hope you'll join us for this momentous occasion.

If you plan to join us, be sure to print out a pass for the event, located in the RSVP portion of the Thoroughbreds and Redheads site, http://makersmark.com/mile2010. We sure don't want to run out of Kevin's creation before everyone's had a chance to sample it that day.

[craigthom]

I got that email, too. I had already signed up for the Saturday thing in Loredo yesterday. I wonder if it will "sell out" more quickly now.

[JohnHansell]

For those of you who like more detail than most, I'm tasting my way through several different possible final versions of the new Maker's with Kevin Smith (and comparing to past and current expressions, including Black Wax), and posted my thoughts up here.

So nice of Kevin to be so open about this. A great guy!

[AVB]

Since You seem to want to bait somebody I'll bite.

Wood is part of bourbon, I was looking at the regs and couldn't find anything that precludes the use of toasted staves however there was a part that said if you put cherry crap in, it is no longer bourbon no matter what it started as, the end product isn't bourbon. I quoted that in the other thread.

Where are the people who are going to rail that "it isn't bourbon!" because they did something to it after the fact?

The nice thing about something like this is that it's an experiment that doesn't take ten years to play itself out.

[Lost Pollito]

So far, what I've read has lead me to think Kevin may have tossed in some toasted chips. Is that correct? I'm curious to know what was done to change the flavor. Glad MM is expanding the line.

[DeanSheen]

A nice candid review John.

I'll be interested to try it when it comes out, at least they are trying.

[spy247]

Althought I'm not to comfortable with the toasted barrel idea,

I'm willing to give this a crack if it ever comes down under.

[flsean]

For those of you interested in a hearing Kevin Smith talk about this a bit more, Mark Gillespie has an interview with him in his newest podcast. (warning, there's always quite a bit of S#*%$& talk as well) http://whiskycast.com/

Pretty good weekly whisky show for those of you who may not already have listened.

[arrScott]

For those of you interested in a hearing Kevin Smith talk about this a bit more, Mark Gillespie has an interview with him in his newest podcast. (warning, there's always quite a bit of S#*%$& talk as well) http://whiskycast.com/

Listened to the podcast last night, in fact. A good show, and an interesting (at times awkward) conversation between Mark and Kevin.

Highlight for me was the explanation of the "toasted oak" business. All of the package designs I saw in the focus group used the phrase "toasted oak," which sounds like the wood is only lightly heated. Makes me think of, you know, toast. Like the cooperage equivalent of taking a slice of Wonder bread and toasting it until it's just slightly tan, and just warm enough to melt a pat of butter.

Kevin described the new secondary barrel profile as being blackened with indirect heat, and used the word "seared." That makes sense to me, and makes me more enthusiastic about the new expression. I hope it's not too late for Maker's Mark to consider calling it "seared oak" instead of "toasted oak."

[Josh]

Listened to the podcast last night, in fact. A good show, and an interesting (at times awkward) conversation between Mark and Kevin.

Highlight for me was the explanation of the "toasted oak" business. All of the package designs I saw in the focus group used the phrase "toasted oak," which sounds like the wood is only lightly heated. Makes me think of, you know, toast. Like the cooperage equivalent of taking a slice of Wonder bread and toasting it until it's just slightly tan, and just warm enough to melt a pat of butter.

Kevin described the new secondary barrel profile as being blackened with indirect heat, and used the word "seared." That makes sense to me, and makes me more enthusiastic about the new expression. I hope it's not too late for Maker's Mark to consider calling it "seared oak" instead of "toasted oak."

I suspect that, marketing wise, "toasted" sounds better than "seared", so I imagine they'll keep it as "toasted".

[CorvallisCracker]

I suspect that, marketing wise, "toasted" sounds better than "seared", so I imagine they'll keep it as "toasted".

Wife: I seared you some bread, dear. Would you like marmalade with it?

Me: Um...I'm not hungry. Just give it to the dog.

[barturtle]

Wife: I seared you some bread, dear. Would you like marmalade with it?

Me: Um...I'm not hungry. Just give it to the dog.

Wife: I toasted you a steak

Husband: Geez, um...would you mind getting out a pan once in a while?

CLANK!!!

Husband: Forget I said anything.

[ILLfarmboy]

Toasted steak bares a resemblance to Woodford Reserve Four Grain.

Its the copper....:grin:

[cowdery]

I think what they're really trying to say with 'toasted' is that the wood is treated with heat, but it's not charred.