15 yr Wheated Bourbons (SW, Van Winkles, etc)

[spun_cookie]

I thought I would post this here with thoughts on the Barreling thread we have goingin mind...

From my limited knowledge of bourbon variations of time (there are a ton of bottles out there that I am sure I do not know of), there are only a few 15yr old SW, Wheated bourbons I know of:

1. Very, Very Old Fitzgerald 15yr/BIB

2. Old Rip Van Winkle 15yr/107 proof from Lawrenceburg

3. Old Rip Van Winkle 15yr/107 proof from Frankfort

4. Pappy Van Winkle 15yr / 107 proof

5. William Larue Willet 15.5 yr / 129.9 proof

6. Van Winkle Family Reserve 15 yr / 90 proof (export only)

Am I missing anything? This is a question of curiosity as much as anything...

You may argue that the two ORVW 15yrs are not different bottlings... but if you have had them... you know they taste different...

There is also differences in the early and current PVW 15/107, but not sure how to tell those apart. I do not think there were any Lawrenceburg PVW 15s, but I did see one odd reference to PVW 15 coming from Lawrenceburg, but I think they meant ORVW 15...

Anyone know of another 15yr SW Wheated or how to tell an early, possible SW PVW 15yr (should be the same juice as the ORVW 15 Frank though)?

Just for reference, here are images I pulled together of each of them

[bluesbassdad]

I dropped by only because I'm having a problem with another forum that operates on vBulletin, and I wanted to see whether I can replicate it here.

I just happened to open your post. Now my mouth is watering, and I'm going to have my January, 2010 drink a few days ahead of schedule. So much for troubleshooting this evening.

Thanks, man! :grin:

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[spun_cookie]

I dropped by only because I'm having a problem with another forum that operates on vBulletin, and I wanted to see whether I can replicate it here.

I just happened to open your post. Now my mouth is watering, and I'm going to have my January, 2010 drink a few days ahead of schedule. So much for troubleshooting this evening.

Thanks, man! :grin:

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

Dave... you really have to get down here for your Feb drink... or I am going to have to venture up there and bring a drink to you...

Hope all is well and take care.

Emerald

[Virus_Of_Life]

You are, I assume, speaking of "exactly" Labeled or known to be 15 year old? Because there are older out there, and as I am sure you will hear soon enough, that Larue Weller has never been 100% confirmed to be of SW origin.

... You weren't just looking to show off that 15 year VVOF now were you? :skep:Nice bottle.

[OscarV]

How about;

Jefferson's Presidential Select 17yo 94prf

Society Of Bourbon Connoisseurs 20yo 112.2prf

Twisted Spoke 16yo 105prf

Willett Family Estate 27yo 138.6prf

[BourbonJoe]

The old McLain & Kyne "Jefferson's Reserve" was 15 y/o.

Joe :usflag:

[tommyboy38]

Is that (The JR 15) a wheater?

As for dating the PVW 15, They have date codes on the bottles. I have one bottle from 2007.

I also have some other bottles without the code that were in the case anf the case was dated to 2006.

[BourbonJoe]

Is that (The JR 15) a wheater?

Come to think of it, I don't think it is. Sorry.

Joe :usflag:

[callmeox]

5. William Larue Willet 15.5 yr / 129.9 proof

Methinks you have Willett on the brain.

[doubleblank]

Julian changed the ORVW 15/107 to Pappy 15/107 in late 2004/early 2005. I recall visiting with Julian in the BT single barrel bottling line right when they changed the packaging from ORVW to Pappy 15. He said there were two things different in the Pappy 15 vs ORVW 15......Preston was involved in the barrel selection for the Pappy 15.......and BT chill filtered the Pappy 15 (and the small amount of ORVW 15/107 bottled in Frankfort) while Julian didn't chill filter ORVW 15 when bottled in L'burg. So, theorectically, ORVW 15/107 L'burg, ORVW 15/107 Frankfort and the original bottlings of Pappy 15/107 might taste different because of filtering and barrel selection even though they are all SW whiskey. I definitely remember one of those early Pappy 15's being different from ORVW 15/107. Again, IIRC, Julian said the early Pappy 15's were sometimes closer to 16yo and he too could taste the difference the additional year made.

Randy

[Old Lamplighter]

As for dating the PVW 15, They have date codes on the bottles. I have one bottle from 2007.

I also have some other bottles without the code that were in the case anf the case was dated to 2006.

First I heard/read of this.......where do you find it?

[OscarV]

5. William Larue Willet 15.5 yr / 129.9 proof

This 129.9 WLarueW is the 2006 release and I have to ask, why do people think that the '05 & '06 release of WLarueW is S-W whiskey?

I have the spec sheets on all five releases and all information except Age Profile, proofs, warehouse and warehouse location is identical.

[OscarV]

... You weren't just looking to show off that 15 year VVOF now were you? :skep:

If you got it, flaunt it!

How about;

Jefferson's Presidential Select 17yo 94prf

Society Of Bourbon Connoisseurs 20yo 112.2prf

Twisted Spoke 16yo 105prf

Willett Family Estate 27yo 138.6prf

I wish I had a camera to flaunt my gems that I quoted in the above post.

[spun_cookie]

You are, I assume, speaking of "exactly" Labeled or known to be 15 year old?

Yes. 15 yrs 0 days t0 15 yrs 364 days

... I am sure you will hear soon enough, that Larue Weller has never been 100% confirmed to be of SW origin

That is one of the factors that drove me to generating this thread.

... You weren't just looking to show off that 15 year VVOF now were you? quote]

No, just truly thinking what 15 yr olds are out there. 15 seems to be a great place for this juice. I also had never seen a picture of one anywhere. There are even threads that refer to the 15 yr as the VVXOF and as far as I can tell, there is no such beast.

Julian changed the ORVW 15/107 to Pappy 15/107 in late 2004/early 2005.

He (Julian) said there were two things different in the Pappy 15 vs ORVW 15

• Preston was involved in the barrel selection for the Pappy 15
  
• BT chill filtered the Pappy 15 (and the small amount of ORVW 15/107 bottled in Frankfort)

Julian didn't chill filter ORVW 15 when bottled in L'burg.

Randy, cool info. I had pieced together information that suggested there was some changes... this is in line with what I was thinking.

theoretically ORVW 15/107 L'burg, ORVW 15/107 Frankfort and the original bottlings of Pappy 15/107 might taste different because of filtering and barrel selection even though they are all SW whiskey.

I definitely remember one of those early Pappy 15's being different from ORVW 15/107. Again, IIRC, Julian said the early Pappy 15's were sometimes closer to 16yo and he too could taste the difference the additional year made.

Randy

I have had each as well and there are differences. The filtering is part, but available barrels have to take a large part. My top PVW 15 yr is the SB we did a couple yrs ago. I know for fact its BT juice, but it is right with the ORVW L'burg bottle with profile.

• Society Of Bourbon Connoisseurs 20yo 112.2prf
  

• Twisted Spoke 16yo 105prf

Very cool Oscar. The 16 yr 105 proof Twisted spoke is in the area of 15. Is that a confirmed SW juice.

[OscarV]

Very cool Oscar. The 16 yr 105 proof Twisted spoke is in the area of 15. Is that a confirmed SW juice.

From what I understand (just repeating info I heard/read) Julian bottled this at his Old Commonwealth Distillery in Lawrenceburg around the same time he bottled Society Of Bourbon Connoisseurs and Old Commonwealth which is "only" 10 years old.

[barturtle]

From what I understand (just repeating info I heard/read) Julian bottled this at his Old Commonwealth Distillery in Lawrenceburg around the same time he bottled Society Of Bourbon Connoisseurs and Old Commonwealth which is "only" 10 years old.

The required info on Twisted Spoke is here:

Here's some info on two of my brands.

Old Commonwealth is indeed history. Binney's in Chicago has the only inventory left. But don't dispare, ORVW 10-year 107 proof is the same whiskey.

The Twisted Spoke label is owned by Mitch Einhorn who owns the Twisted Spoke restaurant in Chicago. He sells this whiskey by the drink & the bottle.I sell a little bit here in Kentucky because of the interest in Harley-Davidson. Mitch gets a commission on sales outside of his restaurant. The whiskey is the same recipe as all my other bourbons. I'm not sure what the future of this brand is. I'll keep you posted.

Julian

[StraightBoston]

Julian changed the ORVW 15/107 to Pappy 15/107 in late 2004/early 2005.

...

I definitely remember one of those early Pappy 15's being different from ORVW 15/107. Again, IIRC, Julian said the early Pappy 15's were sometimes closer to 16yo and he too could taste the difference the additional year made.

[spun_cookie]

My latest Pappy 15 should be Bernheim, correct?)

[callmeox]

Am I the only one who is concerned that Spun has developed a "thing" for 15 year olds?

[OscarV]

Am I the only one who is concerned that Spun has developed a "thing" for 15 year olds?

I would only talk about 18 year olds, under that you will get in trouble.

[birdman1099]

Am I the only one who is concerned that Spun has developed a "thing" for 15 year olds?

That is actually an improvment....

Remamber whan he was in love with the WT 8 yr olds????:skep:

[Virus_Of_Life]

This 129.9 WLarueW is the 2006 release and I have to ask, why do people think that the '05 & '06 release of WLarueW is S-W whiskey?

I have the spec sheets on all five releases and all information except Age Profile, proofs, warehouse and warehouse location is identical.

Never heard anybody state thought the 2005 was, some think the 2006 was because, well, it tastes like it. Also I think the (going strictly form memory here) the 2005 was ~12 years old whereas the 2006 was 15+; therefore putting it in the possible age range.

[ErichPryde]

Preston was involved in the barrel selection for the Pappy 15.......and BT chill filtered the Pappy 15 (and the small amount of ORVW 15/107 bottled in Frankfort) while Julian didn't chill filter ORVW 15 when bottled in L'burg.

Randy

very good information! I wasn't aware that one wasn't chill filtered.

First I heard/read of this.......where do you find it?

Tommy is probably referring to the string of black numbers that most likely contains a "Julian" (heh) date in it located on the side of the bottle. It's really too bad that the current bottle manufacturer for all of the VW bottlings does not include a year stamp on the bottom of their bottles.

This 129.9 WLarueW is the 2006 release and I have to ask, why do people think that the '05 & '06 release of WLarueW is S-W whiskey?

I have the spec sheets on all five releases and all information except Age Profile, proofs, warehouse and warehouse location is identical.

Never heard anybody state thought the 2005 was, some think the 2006 was because, well, it tastes like it. Also I think the (going strictly form memory here) the 2005 was ~12 years old whereas the 2006 was 15+; therefore putting it in the possible age range.

I think there is a lot of theorizing and hoping that because it tastes like SW and it fits the necessary age requirement, that it is. I've heard both. I don't think that BT would out-and-out lie on the fact sheet, but could they be intentionally misleading? including the mill screen and recipe, and proof off of the still, but not the "actual" distillation location? It's not bottled in bond, and since they own the weller name, are the obligated to be completely honest about the actual location? I see that the BTAC fact sheets have "Distiller: Buffalo Trace distillery, franklin county, kentucky" on the top, but are they saying that they distilled it, or that they are the distiller that bottled it?

Honestly, I feel that the WLW we're talking about probably is BT distillate. They can, and DO, make some very good wheat whiskeys, what's to say that one didn't come out very reminiscent of a S-W whiskey and particularly delicious?

[TomH]

I'll leave it to some our more industrious members to search the archives for verification, but I think I remember Julian saying (or someone attributing it to Julian) that the first PVW bottles were from barrels that aged a little longer than the earlier ORWV 15. If this is not true, just blame it on a dream while drinking to much ORWV15.

Also, not to take this thread off topic, why do some bourbon drinkers think that more wood flavor = a scotch type profile. This is the 2nd time this weekend this came up....Joe and I also noted this when talking about a Parkers bottling that a customer said "tasted like scotch". IMHO, wood does not equal (or even approximates) peat.

Tom

I can vouch for Randy's info here -- the first PVW15 was S-W juice but a different profile than the last ORVW15/107s. I own both (or owned -- too much char in the PVW15 and I passed it on to a scotch-drinking friend. My latest Pappy 15 should be Bernheim, correct?)

[BourbonJoe]

I, for one, believe that the 2006 WLW is SW whiskey based on taste and certain comments made by industry people at the time.

Joe :usflag: