Things tour guides say - George Dickel

[wadewood]

Since several of us will be touring distillers this week at KBF, I thought I would start a series of threads of things stated by tour guides. No names of tour guides will be given, it is not my intention of getting anybody in trouble. I went by George Dickel and Jack Daniels yesterday; my first visit to both of these.

At George Dickel, tour guide said:

-Mashbill is 84% corn, 8% rye, 8% malted barley. Stated Jack Daniels is 80% corn.

-they have 11 rickhouses, all 1 story, and they are all full.

-distilled first in a pot still to 115 proof, then in column still to 135 proof.

-Jack Daniels is aged 4 years and 1 day

-filtered through 21 ft of sugar maple charcoal vs. 10 ft at Jack Daniels

-that George Dickell found his yeast strain nearby and that is a very fast acting yeast

-the recently introduced Cascade Hollow brand is a 3 year old and meant for mixing

-the old No.8 is 8-10 YO, the No.12 is 10-12 YO and the barrel select is 11-12YO

-after coming off still and before sugar maple charcoal, it is chilled to 40 degrees. Being chilled and then going though charcoal removes all the fatty acids and "impurities".

-These "impurities" in other brands will poison you and your liver and George will give you very little hangover effects.

-that no one else uses chill filtering. Except later said exception to this was Buffalo Trace.

-Buffalo Trace uses chill filtering because of George Dickel. During Prohibition, George Dickel obtained a medicinal permit for state of KY. He went and distilled at Buffalo Trace and taught them several techniques including chill filtering.

-Stated at least 10 times that George Dickel is the smoothest whiskey you can find.

[Josh]

Great idea for a thread!

In tribute to Corvallis Cracker..

At George Dickel, tour guide said:

-Mashbill is 84% corn, 8% rye, 8% malted barley. Stated Jack Daniels is 80% corn.

Damn, that's high. They could sell the white dog as Corn Whiskey.

-they have 11 rickhouses, all 1 story, and they are all full.

That explains a lot. They mention any plans to expand soon?

-distilled first in a pot still to 115 proof, then in column still to 135 proof.

That's an odd thing to say.

-filtered through 21 ft of sugar maple charcoal vs. 10 ft at Jack Daniels

Makes sense. I get a lot more maple out of George than Jack

-the recently introduced Cascade Hollow brand is a 3 year old and meant for mixing.

...mixing with the water from my faucet as it goes down the drain

-the old No.8 is 8-10 YO, the No.12 is 10-12 YO and the barrel select is 11-12YO

Like Cascade Hollow, I find those numbers a bit hard to swallow.

-after coming off still and before sugar maple charcoal, it is chilled to 40 degrees. Being chilled and then going though charcoal removes all the fatty acids and "impurities"....etc

Again, that's an odd thing to say.

Reminds me of when I had to tell the spirits guy in the wine section of my favorite grocery store that Woodford Reserve wasn't a wheater. Makes one wonder how much training these folks get.

[sku]

-These "impurities" in other brands will poison you and your liver and George will give you very little hangover effects.

-that no one else uses chill filtering. Except later said exception to this was Buffalo Trace.

-Buffalo Trace uses chill filtering because of George Dickel. During Prohibition, George Dickel obtained a medicinal permit for state of KY. He went and distilled at Buffalo Trace and taught them several techniques including chill filtering.

-Stated at least 10 times that George Dickel is the smoothest whiskey you can find.

This is where it moves into bizzarro world type stuff.

I think BT is one of the only American distilleries that doesn't chill filter all of their whiskies.

[harshest]

I think BT is one of the only American distilleries that doesn't chill filter all of their whiskies.

"All of our bourbons are chill filtered. Some other companies do different types of filtration, but we prefer the chill filtration because it alters the taste the least, or the color the least."

http://www.buffalotrace.com/elmer_videos.asp?vid=filtration&ext=wmv

[sku]

"All of our bourbons are chill filtered. Some other companies do different types of filtration, but we prefer the chill filtration because it alters the taste the least, or the color the least."

http://www.buffalotrace.com/elmer_videos.asp?vid=filtration&ext=wmv

Odd. The cask strength BTACs are famously "uncut and unfiltered." I've no doubt that everything else they make is filtered.

[CorvallisCracker]

In tribute to Corvallis Cracker..

[cowdery]

About 3/4 of the stuff the Dickel guy said is true. That's not too bad.

[squire]

Wonder what strain of yeast Cascade used before Dickel bought the place. It's my understanding part of the reason for his purchase was the quality whisky already being produced there.

[tmckenzie]

Probably wild like everybody else then.

[cowdery]

For the record, the Dickel company never owned Cascade. It was owned by Victor Shwab, George Dickel's partner. George never had an interest. The distillery had a string of owners before Shwab, principally Maclin Davis, who was around before Shwab and held a miniority interest with Shwab. He was the distiller which would have made him the yeast maker too. When Davis died Shwab bought that interest from the heirs and became sole owner. After George Dickel's death, Shwab was partners with George's widow in the Dickel company.

This is all before Prohibition. Both families were out of it by the time Prohibition was repealed.

[squire]

And I had this romantic image of George traipsing around the creek bank with a small catch net in his hand. Next you'll be telling me Samuels Sr. didn't bake all that bread.

[bourbonv]

Shwab was Dickel's brother-in-law and partner in the business.

Mike Veach

[cowdery]

Specifically, the two wives were sisters. Shwab and Dickel were partners in the Dickel business only. Dickel never owned an interest in the distillery, nor in the Nashville den of iniquity. Dickel's wife was much younger than he and outlived him by many years. She and George had no children so the Shwabs -- her sister's family -- were her only family after George died and she left everything to them upon her own death. The only member of the next generation to stay involved, and who actually made the deal to sell the brand after Prohibition, was the aptly named George Dickel Shwab.

Today Diageo does tell some tales about George and his wife falling in love with Cascade Hollow and deciding to build a distillery there, but that is pure fiction. It is unlikely that George was ever anywhere near Cascade Hollow.

It's often said that behind every great fortune is a great crime. Many distillers had shady backgrounds but the evidence is strong that all of the Shwabs and many other participants in the Dickel business had criminal backgrounds. Dickel was, in some ways, little more than a respectable front man. The main crime they committed was smuggling contraband, including liquor, into Nashville when it was blockaded by the Union Army, a crime I'm sure their neighbors did not hold against them.