Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
silverfish

Pappy Van Winkle clarification

Recommended Posts

silverfish

David Driscoll from K&L gets clarification from Preston

regarding PVW & SW:

"Apparently, the Pappy 15, 20, and 23 are the only entries that are still

being sourced from old Stitzel-Weller reserves, making them true Pappy

whiskies. The 10, 12, and 13 rye are now whiskies that were made either

at Bernheim or at Buffalo Trace, so they are new generation Van Winkle

whiskies from Preston and Julien, rather than reserves.

However, it will eventually run out, which is why Preston and Julien have

been making new Van Winkle whiskies at Buffalo Trace. They don't have

any 15 or 20 year old bourbon yet to sell, but it appears they do have 12

and 10 year old stock because that is what you are drinking this year (and

maybe for the previous few for all I know)."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dmarkle

Well this year's VWFRR is fantastic. I'd thought that Julian was still taking that out of stainless these days, but I guess I was wrong.

I'd figured that the 15 was not S-W, either. I guess that explains its incredible rarity these days, especially up here in DC where nobody has gotten any allocation. It's going to be really interesting to see what happens in the next 2-3 years when the current Lot B stock gets older. I wonder how it will compare.

If the quality of the rye is any indication, it will be wonderful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smokinjoe

Interesting. I have to question, though, if the 15yr is 100% S-W, and not potentially a blend of S-W and something else. I think I remember reading something like that here, somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TomH

Good memory Joe, I just looked it up and that was from my post back in 2007. When I asked Julian about the future of Pappy 15 being SW since it was then 15 years from the closing, he said that they were using BT product in some Pappy 15. He didn't use the word blend with me. The blending aspect of SW and BT into Pappy 15 was later posted by Chuck.

Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
doubleblank

David doesn't quite have his "facts" right about Pappy either. He didn't make the whiskey you're drinking when you see Pappy on the bottle. He died in 1965. JVW Jr died in 1981, so he didn't make it either. Heck, the distillery was sold in 1972.

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh

Also, iirc, isn't there is still some Medley Rye in VWFRR?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
callmeox
Also, iirc, isn't there is still some Medley Rye in VWFRR?

The world may never know.

tootsie-pop-350.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jvanwinkle

The rye we are selling now still comes from a stainless tank at BT. It was put in that tank in 2003.The whiskey is part Medley/part Bernheim.

Ed Foote at S/W made the whiskey we are selling as 15, 20 & 23 year.

Julian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cowdery
David doesn't quite have his "facts" right about Pappy either. He didn't make the whiskey you're drinking when you see Pappy on the bottle. He died in 1965. JVW Jr died in 1981, so he didn't make it either. Heck, the distillery was sold in 1972.

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TNbourbon
...Ed Foote at S/W made the whiskey we are selling as 15, 20 & 23 year.

Julian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh
The rye we are selling now still comes from a stainless tank at BT. It was put in that tank in 2003.The whiskey is part Medley/part Bernheim.

Ed Foote at S/W made the whiskey we are selling as 15, 20 & 23 year.

Julian

Thanks Julian, it's always a treat when you post here. Some folks could learn a thing or two from how you interact with this forum!:deadhorse:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
doubleblank

Hey Chuck, David has edited his comments to clarify his original statement (someone else commented on his blog about the same confusion). It now reads "....made at Pappy's distillery.....".

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jvanwinkle

In the last couple of years, we bottled up a 2-3 year supply of 15, 16 year to sell as 15 year Pappy. We still have some 20 year S/W in barrels to bottle as 20 year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OscarV
In the last couple of years, we bottled up a 2-3 year supply of 15,
[QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Now that's the way to do it.

Other distillers tank it in stainless and tap it year to year and it gets aired out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TNbourbon
In the last couple of years, we bottled up a 2-3 year supply of 15, 16 year to sell as 15 year Pappy. We still have some 20 year S/W in barrels to bottle as 20 year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smokinjoe

Not to sound dense here ( I know, it's hard to tell with me sometimes :crazy:), but should I understand this to mean that there has been nothing but S-W distilled bourbon in any Pappy 15?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dmarkle
Thanks, Julian. Will the 15yo go away -- at least, as a "Pappy" bottling -- once the current supply is depleted?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gillman

I seem to recall an explanation from someone that when the PVW name was placed on the 15, that was due to some non-S-W bourbon being mixed with S-W. This would now appear erroneous, unless Julian was referring to the S-W component of Pappy 15.

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cowdery

When Bernheim whiskey stated to appear in some of the expressions they relaunched the line, creating Pappy 15 and dropping Old Rip 15, so that everything with Pappy's picture on it would be S-W. There was one bottling of, I think it was 23, that was not Stitzel-Weller, but that was many years ago. For what it's worth, since the non-SW Van Winkles are terrific, anything with Pappy's picture on it is SW.

Remember that although we devote a lot of attention to Van Winkle bottlings, the brand is really quite small. Julian has a pretty good idea how much he will sell every year and is therefore able to make a finite supply last beyond what would seem logical, based on dates of distillation. It will, however, run out eventually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hectic1

Thanks for the clarification...I feel even better now about my decision to not pick up BTAC bottlings this year but to allocate my budget to getting as many Pappy 15's as I could...I've added 6 and looking for more! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gillman

Okay I got it now, it was the 10 and 12 that started to use Bernheim and so the Pappy 15 was and is all-SW. Still, I thought I read somewhere that even Pappy 15 had some Bernheim whiskey in it, but clearly that is not so.

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smokinjoe

Wow, there have been a lot of confused people for a couple of years, now. Me, included.

So, just to be sure. All Pappy 15 bottled, always has been, and currently is,(as of November 2010) 100% Stitzel-Weller Distillate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
doubleblank

Not that it's pertinent anymore nor do I want to add to the confusion as to the provenance of Pappys, but the original Pappy 20 and Pappy 23 were bottled in "green glass" in Lawrenceburg. The last ones I purchased were "dusties" back a couple of years ago found in San Antonio. The "green glass" Pappy 20 was from the Boone Distillery and was not a wheated bourbon. The Van Winkle Family Reserve 17yo was also from Boone, but only sold in Japan. The Boone whiskey was distilled in 1974 and the 17yo bottled in 1991. He then produced the Pappy 20yo around 1994/95 which is when the Beverage Tasting Institute rated it a 99. The BTI has rated it 99 several times, so it has received those scores with different whiskies in the bottle.....impressive.

Julian never has said where he sourced the original Pappy 23 from......and we've twisted his arm a few times too. Based on "clues" he gave us, I always guessed it was a rye based whiskey intended for Fleischmans, but Julian never said so. It's possible its the same Boone whiskey just three years older.

I do believe its pretty safe to say any Pappy 20 or Pappy 23 you find is SW. I prefer the current releases to the original ones but many here have a preference for the originals.

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dgonano

I also believed the Pappy 15 contained SW + other bourbons. I seem to remember that Preston came along and altered the taste profile upon the change to "Pappy". When we assume we make an "ass,etc".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
doubleblank

The change from ORVW 15/107 to the Pappy 15 did coincide with Preston assisting Julian in barrel selection for the first time (IIRC). I also recall many here commenting that the taste profile was slightly different (woodier/drier) in that first Pappy 15 release and ASSUMED that was Preston's contribution and/or a switch from SW to Bernheim, et al. Julian later said that partucular release was a little older than 15 years and probably resulted in the slightly drier product.

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×