High West Double Rye!

[jmpyle]

Got a nice surprise today, an advanced tasting of High West's new "Double Rye!". A new addition to their lineup. It's a blend of their 16 year old 53% Rye (37% Corn, 10% Barley malt) with a young 2 year old 95% Rye mashbill (from LDI).

It's a monster, an absolute kick in the ass. While the 16 year old butts in to deliver some sweetness, the youthfulness of the 2 year old really asserts itself. Gin botanicals, Pine sap, and a lot of herbal character with some honey sweetness sticking everything together.

This one's an intense Rye. I should have a review up early next week. It will be on the shelves later this month.

[B.B. Babington]

sounds interesting. Some folks see cutting old with younger is just a way of stretching out the material, but sometimes this lends some interesting character and makes a good drink - mixing good flavors. And makes a good drink more affordable. Lots of premium sips are produced this way.

[jmpyle]

You know I'm sure it is. I'm sure it's a way to have enough of the older, more expensive product to go around. BUT, I've had the 16 yr rye and the 21 yr rye. While I love the 21 - it's awesome, the Rendezvous Rye is their best product in my opinion. It's a blend of 6 and 16 year ryes. So whether trying to stretch product or just trying to compliment and lift the older spirit - it all works to me.

For me it's all about what the finished product tastes about, but I can see others points.

[sku]

You know I'm sure it is. I'm sure it's a way to have enough of the older, more expensive product to go around. BUT, I've had the 16 yr rye and the 21 yr rye. While I love the 21 - it's awesome, the Rendezvous Rye is their best product in my opinion. It's a blend of 6 and 16 year ryes. So whether trying to stretch product or just trying to compliment and lift the older spirit - it all works to me.

For me it's all about what the finished product tastes about, but I can see others points.

[jmpyle]

Sku, that's the 12 year. It's awesome. I'm tasting it along with the Double Rye!. Fantastic stuff - rich, more sweetness, and reminds me much more of Whistlepig. Honestly, in some ways it's better.

The Double Rye! is just a totally different whiskey than Rendezvous. I suppose same concept, but this is absolutely not Rendezvous Light. While green, fresh, and lively, it packs a big rye whallop.

[MissinER101]

OK....A little off the thread but I have lots of time to web surf etc and I do searches on "stuff".

Anyone in the Athens GA area, evidently they don't ship but if the price is real I'd bust @ to get me some.....

http://www.fivepointsbottleshop.com/fivepoints/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=7307&idcategory=0

HIGH WEST WHISKEY RENDEZVOUS

SKU: 36413

750ml More details...

Price: $1.21

Tried to order 20 bottles but it said "48 Hr store pick-up"

[MissinER101]

OK, went back and tried to order only 5 bottles and noticed this....

All prices are subject to change without notice. In the event of a difference in price shown online, the product description and display price in the Five Points Bottle Shop store shall prevail.

So probably not gonna get it for a buck 21

[sailor22]

I had a chance to taste the High West Double Rye a few weeks ago and thought it was really good also. The 21 is one of my favorite Ryes and the 16 is not far off. The Double is something really different than either of them and really tasty - I kept pouring more, just wanted to keep drinking it. I'm definitely going to get my hands on a few of these when they are available.

I'm not surprised Dave Perkins put together a great vatting of Ryes but the new make - unaged - Scotch was unexpected and good also. The nose is all bubblegum and candy while the taste adds some body. I didn't get to sample much but look forward to spending a little more time with it soon.

He has a product in the pipeline that could prove really interesting - a barrel aged Manhattan. Sounds like it could be great or terrible. Thats another I'm anxious to try.

[p_elliott]

OK, went back and tried to order only 5 bottles and noticed this....

So probably not gonna get it for a buck 21

The old bait and switch

[Josh]

So...it's basically the Rendezvous but instead of a 6 y/o, they use a 2 y/o? I'm sure it's tasty, but unless they're going to replace the Rendezvous with this, I'm not sure what the point of it is. I would hope it's cheaper than the Rendezvous.

[sku]

So...it's basically the Rendezvous but instead of a 6 y/o, they use a 2 y/o? I'm sure it's tasty, but unless they're going to replace the Rendezvous with this, I'm not sure what the point of it is. I would hope it's cheaper than the Rendezvous.

[Josh]

When I tasted it at WhiskyLive, I was the only one in the crowd who preferred Rendezvous to the Double Rye. I think it provides a bit lighter profile that will probably be very appealing to mixologists, sort of like WT Russel Reserve or a good version of R1.

Fair enough. What's the proof?

[sku]

Fair enough. What's the proof?

You know, looking back in my notes, I just noticed that what I tasted was the Western Rye, not the Double Rye, though it sounds like the same mix. I don't know if these are the same or different products.

[cowdery]

If nothing else, David Perkins has shown himself to be an adept marketer. New products, even if they aren't really new, generate buzz and attention, all for the cost of a label approval. One of the things successful entrepreneurs often do is find a way to profit by doing things that are counterintuitive to most participants in their industry, such as making a positive of creating "blends," even though he could identify his products (except for the Bourye) as straights. Every new label is a new conversation with consumers and customers, a new press release, and a new SKU at retail.

And as a small business he doesn't have to convince very many people that "blended whiskey" can be a premium product.

[jmpyle]

Josh/Chuck, This product is absolutely miles different from Rendezvous. Literally the only thing they have in common is they are a blended rye. The 16 year old in RR is 80% rye. In Double Rye! it's 53 percent. The 2 year rye in Double Rye! is the same 95% rye mashbill from LDI. Double Rye! is 92 Proof. It's lighter but only from the standpoint that it's a "greener" tasting rye. Much fresher and vibrant than Rendezvous. Honestly the result i can confidently say is FAR different. Anyone expecting it to be RR-light will be very surprised.

This is also "in addition to" product and not a replacement of RR.

Chuck: From the above comment, do you believe "Blended Whiskey" and "Premium" are mutually exclusive? Wonder if many of the great Scotch Whisky producers, some of the great small batch bourbons, Jim Rutledge, etc. would agree?

I've enjoyed Double Rye! immensely. Some may call it marketing, some may call it stretching the older product, or just putting product on shelves. I just call it great whiskey. That's what it is.

[mrmountainhop]

If nothing else, David Perkins has shown himself to be an adept marketer.

And as a small business he doesn't have to convince very many people that "blended whiskey" can be a premium product.

Look, I defer to your extensive knowledge and experience, but since when, if the whiskey is good, do we suffer at the hands of a successful whiskey seller?

And as High West has shown, blended whiskies can be premium products.

[callmeox]

Chuck: From the above comment, do you believe "Blended Whiskey" and "Premium" are mutually exclusive? Wonder if many of the great Scotch Whisky producers, some of the great small batch bourbons, Jim Rutledge, etc. would agree?

Jim Rutledge and Four Roses do not sell a blended whiskey. Jim fought hard to get the Four Roses blend removed from the US market in favor of their straights and the success of that move is obvious.

I have a question for you. Do you spend this much time defending the products of other producers who give you free samples? I don't mean to offend, but you sound a bit 'shilly' for High West.

[sailor22]

I think you are confusing the technical definition of Blended Whiskey and the common usage of the term blended.

Some current 4Roses iterations are vattings (in common usage of the word blends) of various straights, as are the High West products. To my knowledge neither currently produce any whiskey containing GNS.

[cowdery]

American blended whiskeys are typically 20% whiskey and 80% vodka and are generally considered cheap and shoddy, a cheap source of alcohol for people who like a little whiskey with their cheap vodka.

This is hardly a controversial position. It's the industry consensus. Even the companies that make and sell American blended whiskey consider it crap.

Because that is the reputation of American blended whiskey it was surprising that High West decided to describe Rendezvous as a blended whiskey (they call it 'a blend of straight rye whiskeys') even though it was entitled to be called straight rye.

Most marketers of a premium American whiskey product would avoid the word "blend" like the plague but High West did not.

I meant it as a compliment since High West succeeded by going against conventional wisdom.

[jmpyle]

Callmeox, my Jim Rutledge mention just refers to the fact that Four Roses has 2 mash bills and 5 yeast strains. They have the versatility of being able to "Blend" (or as sailor22 points out - Vat) barrels with different characteristics to make their Yellow, Small Batch, and Mariage products. It may be single distillery blending, but it's blending. And no neutrail spirit is involved. It's different from other distilleries that (in most cases) batch the same mash, same bourbon just maybe aged in different spots in the warehouse OR mother nature just worked in such a way that they have different characteristics. What Jim does is create these 10 different bourbons so he can blend them how he needs to in order to create a certain profile. Still, it's blending.

Thanks for asking that last question. I'm not tied to any distiller in any way. I have a website where I review bourbon and american whiskey and I will get products from distillers to review from time to time. Some I review, some I do not. But as for any agenda, I have none other than to provide reviews, info, and talk about products that I think are great. That may mean from time to time I'm defending them against a position I don't agree with, but that doesn't have anything to do with the distillery. That's more to do with my opinion on the product vs. someone else's. That includes any distiller whether they've given something to review or I've gone out and bought it like anyone else (which is the way it works 90+% of the time).

Also, showcasing and talking about distilleries that are doing great work is fun for me. I don't care if a distillery gives me a case of something - if it's not good it's not going to get any "love" from me. The HW products I've tried have been products that I'd consider great. I do hope that more companies put out blended products that taste great. So maybe if there is any agenda it's to change the though process that blends are "bad". Like everyone else, I LOVE the "old guard" distilleries. I talk about many of them on my site far more than anything from HW (Heaven Hill and Four Roses more than any other to date). Some of the folks that go to my site are experienced novices looking for some suggestions. I can't think of a single time I've recommended a HW product to them (you can feel free to peruse the comments). I've mostly recommended more mainstream products that are easier to locate. But because of that there's less "controversy" about those products. For whatever reason, the discussion of HW brings out a lot of polarizing viewpoints. Anyway, I hope that answers the question.

Chuck, I understand what most folks think of blended whiskey, but that is changing. Doing it the way "they" used to by mixing neutral grain spirit, most certainly is not. But I think those blending great products together can certainly be proud of making "blends". I'd sure like to see more of it, if the product in the bottle is great.

[Josh]

Callmeox, my Jim Rutledge reference refers to the fact that Four Roses has 2 mash bills and 5 yeast strains. They have the versatility of being able to "Blend" (or as sailor22 points out - Vat) barrels with different characteristics to make their Yellow, Small Batch, and Mariage products. This is considered blending. It may be single distillery blending, but it's blending. And no neutrail spirit is involved. It's different from other distilleries in that (in most cases) batch the same mash, same bourbon just maybe aged in different spots in the warehouse OR mother nature just worked in such a way that they have different characteristics. What Jim does is create these 10 different bourbons so he can blend them how he needs to in order to create a certain profile. Still, it's blending.

[jmpyle]

Josh, there's many folks on this forum (this thread even) that have vastly more experience and knowledge than I do. I don't claim to know it all and never will. That's part of the fun. It's also not a criteria for putting a website up and posting my thoughts and reviews on whiskeys I drink.

But blended whiskey does not have a firm, standard definition. It can be a myriad of things and it also doesn't HAVE to include Grain Neutral Spirit. If there was a 'standard' definition it would be blending two different whiskeys(rye and bourbon perhaps), but it can be a blend of single malts, a blend of grain whiskeys, a blend of grain and single, a blend of grain and GNS, etc. etc. It's gotten a bad name because historically it did include grain neutral spirit. And that may be your interpretation of the definition. The definition is loose and not nearly as standardized as Single Malt and Bourbon on their own.

My point about four roses is being a tad overblown. All I'm saying is you *could* consider it as such because that is the purpose of having those different whiskeys, so they can blend different flavors and mash bill (in many cases) to create a single product. My biggest point is simply that Blended Whiskeys can be great and premium. That's all I'm trying to say.

[Josh]

There's nothing wrong with blogging about things that you don't know every last thing about. But as the saying goes, don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs.

These links have proved helpful to me in understanding what a blend is and isn't.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14417

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14189

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/07/us-law-magically-changes-vodka-into.html

[jmpyle]

These links have proved helpful to me in understanding what a blend is and isn't.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14417

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14189

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/07/us-law-magically-changes-vodka-into.html

Josh, I'm honestly not trying to teach anyone to suck anything. Thanks for the links also but they do confirm what I'm already aware of and what i've been saying ad nauseum. As Chuck's post (specifically paragraph 3) is absolutely in line with my understanding of a blend. Which is to say the definition is loose.

[Josh]

Which is to say the definition is loose.

What does that mean?