Who Likes White Dog?

[Josh]

Late to thread I know, but I do drink a good amount of unaged corn whiskey during the summertime, and enjoy it. Maybe 10%. The BT white dog is kept around for educational purposes.

[B.B. Babington]

...As this micro-distilling thing has developed and more of the un- or barely-aged products have come on the market I have developed a new appreciation for the visionaries...

"Visionaries" is an interesting term. I agree these are visionaries with a realist's eye for building a viable company. In today's world, most startup companies don't enjoy a patron financier interested in a fun hobby, so they must recoup investment fast. What I like is that this creates atmosphere for new and varied flavors - and some of these young products are actually good.

[squire]

My disinterest covers the unaged or lightly aged whiskys and I plan to still be around when the aged expressions are market ready.

[cowdery]

"Visionaries" is an interesting term. I agree these are visionaries with a realist's eye for building a viable company. In today's world, most startup companies don't enjoy a patron financier interested in a fun hobby, so they must recoup investment fast. What I like is that this creates atmosphere for new and varied flavors - and some of these young products are actually good.

If you think they're so good, answer the question.

How much white dog do you drink relative to your consumption of aged spirits? Would you say you enjoy white dog exclusively, frequently, occasionally, rarely, or never?

[Khomeinist]

The survey technique is amusing.

Very little interest in 'white dog.'

Zero interest in purchasing such whiskey.

Would love to taste Talisker or S-W white dog.

I love tequila blanco.

I do not have much interest in the 'mixology' scene.

Proper integration of oak is key to almost all the spirits and wines I drink.

Enjoy the data. A few extra nuggets to round out the marketing profile.

[pepcycle]

In reply to a Crotchety Old Guy looking for data for future Free Lance White Dog Article.

At least 90%, of the 5% of the unaged or short aged distillate I consume, is commercially available.

99% of the time, I don't choose that 5%, but when I do, I consume 40% more than thought I would, which is half as much as I admit to, if asked.

Hope that helps.

[callmeox]

0.00%

The one bottle of corn whiskey that I purchased in the last year was given away to an SB'er who likes the stuff much (much) more than I.

It's not my bag, baby.

[cowdery]

So far the results would seem to that people who hate it never drink it and people who like it rarely drink it.

Maybe this will convince some folks that if they want to make and sell whiskey they better figure out a way to finance a real maturation program because the novelty factor that is selling the stuff now is going to wear off fast.

[ILLfarmboy]

How many people sip white tequila or white rum straight? The best use of un-aged spirits is in cocktails. That's becoming crystal clear the more I sample them.

[Josh]

I have on good authority that the guy Scott gave that bottle of Glen Thunder Corn Whiskey to really enjoyed it. Uhoh, have I said too much?

Not that it will skew the stats too much, but to put it in perspective...Yes 1/10 of total pours in the summer is not a lot, but that's about as much Scotch as I drink during the same period and the same proportion of my total whiskey consumption that is Four Roses.:grin:

[kickert]

So far the results would seem to that people who hate it never drink it and people who like it rarely drink it.

Maybe this will convince some folks that if they want to make and sell whiskey they better figure out a way to finance a real maturation program because the novelty factor that is selling the stuff now is going to wear off fast.

I think your methodology is a bit skewed Chuck. You are asking a bunch of bourbon elitists if they like a non-bourbon product. You could just have easily asked "How much of your total spirits drinking is dedicated to spiced rum" and just because the number is probably pretty low, does not mean that there is no market for it.

I would fully expect the people on SB.com to prefer aged whiskey.

[White Dog]

So far the results would seem to that people who hate it never drink it and people who like it rarely drink it.

Maybe this will convince some folks that if they want to make and sell whiskey they better figure out a way to finance a real maturation program because the novelty factor that is selling the stuff now is going to wear off fast.

[cowdery]

I think your methodology is a bit skewed Chuck. You are asking a bunch of bourbon elitists if they like a non-bourbon product. You could just have easily asked "How much of your total spirits drinking is dedicated to spiced rum" and just because the number is probably pretty low, does not mean that there is no market for it.

I would fully expect the people on SB.com to prefer aged whiskey.

[squire]

Patience Chuck, perhaps someone will come forth, if they are a member of this Board.

[B.B. Babington]

...I'm saying "look, the stuff may be interesting, and people may be enamored of having a distillery next door, and willing to be supportive, but you can't build a business based on selling bottles nobody will finish."

I agree with Chuck on this one. I buy a lot of bottles of under-aged micro-distillery material even though it carries a high price. But, I only buy the first bottle and almost never buy a second unless it's really great (and that's rare). So, I'm guessing few people ever buy the first under-aged bottle. And of those purchasers, few ever buy more of the same label.

[dmarkle]

I agree with Chuck on this one. I buy a lot of bottles of under-aged micro-distillery material even though it carries a high price. But, I only buy the first bottle and almost never buy a second unless it's really great (and that's rare). So, I'm guessing few people ever buy the first under-aged bottle. And of those purchasers, few ever buy more of the same label.

[kickert]

And who would you expect to be the big drinkers of white dog?

...

I also consider myself the friend of the micro-distiller, even if what I practice is tough love, because I'm saying "look, the stuff may be interesting, and people may be enamored of having a distillery next door, and willing to be supportive, but you can't build a business based on selling bottles nobody will finish."

So no, White Dog, it's not that I have anything against white dog per se, but I'm waiting in vain here for someone to come forward and say, "I love white dog, it's all I ever drink."

[cowdery]

It is very correct that un- and barely-aged whiskeys have found their best and highest use in the hands of creative mixologists, who like it as an ingredient and make good use of it.

Actually, I think there are people who only or primarily drink absinthe.

But I stand by my opinion, prediction, admonition that if a distillery wants to be in the whiskey business they better figure out a maturation program, because whiskey needs wood and just isn't the same without it. Crotchety or not, I stand by that contention.

[kickert]

But I stand by my opinion, prediction, admonition that if a distillery wants to be in the whiskey business they better figure out a maturation program, because whiskey needs wood and just isn't the same without it. Crotchety or not, I stand by that contention.

I won't disagree with that contention. I see unaged whiskey products filling the same role as Vodka, Gin, Liquoers, etc. They allow distilleries to put out products (and make a bit of money) while working on proper whiskey. Of course if they sell all their new make and can't put out the real stuff, then that is obviously a problem.

[sku]

That's a straw man Chuck. I don't know anyone who says "Absinthe is the only thing I ever drink" but that doesn't mean there is no market for it.

If you have ever been on an Absinthe forum, you will see lots of people who drink only or mostly Absinthe. And by the way, if you think we get into arguments about Bourbon now and then, you should check out the Absinthe flame wars. Those guys are crazy!

[squire]

Absinthe has that effect, I'm told.

[cowdery]

My thought exactly. I think it's the drug "Charlie Sheen" under another name. New word for getting high: "sheening."

[kickert]

If you have ever been on an Absinthe forum, you will see lots of people who drink only or mostly Absinthe. And by the way, if you think we get into arguments about Bourbon now and then, you should check out the Absinthe flame wars. Those guys are crazy!

I will give you that for sure... Absinthe drinkers are rabid.

[pepcycle]

Chuck's Assertion that whiskeys (grain based liquors) do need some wood aging is sound.

Sugar cane, agave, potato, grape yadda yadda based liquors stand on their own or are consumed for effect. If flavor, complexity, smoothness, aroma are positive attributes of whiskey, a lot of that comes from the wood. So I think Chuck's point is that someone in the micro distilling world should listen. Either call all your short aged or unaged products Mixers or start maturing your product in wood.

[B.B. Babington]

I like wood. Some people talk about over-aged, but I've never experienced that. I'm gullible and fall for many of the "finished in something new wood" type products. I'm one of the few that fanatically enjoy the Woodford maple.

With that said, white dog whiskey has a lot to offer. It's not because I sipped white dog from a mountain jug 45 years ago that sways my opinion, it's because I've found some unusual white dog and underaged whiskeys that are worth attention. One unusual product (rarely available outside of Virginia) is Catoctin Creek Rye white dog which is smoother than Blantons or Patron Blanco and definitely in the same league.

to further drive home the point - in the nutty guy topic (see:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14813&highlight=nutty+guy )

I mentioned that it inspired me to do a wood flavor taste test which included the list below. One thing that came of it was the Catoctin Creek super impressed folks, one of which managed a liquor store and toured distilleries for vacation. Afterwards, one participant ONLY bought a Catoctin Creek from the list. Here's the list from that night per my post "BT white dog, catoctin creek mosby, pappy 20, WT tradition 14yo, saz 18, stagg, wlw, crown XR, bowman single barrel, woodford seasoned oak, woodford maple, yamazaki 12yo, yamazaki 18yo, glenmorangie 18yo, EC 18 yo, glenlivet nadurra, glenlivet french oak, and maybe a couple others I don't remember."

and no, I do not work for Catoctin nor ever met those folks.