Successful Two Bourbon Vattings

[mosugoji64]

Basil Hayden (still at 8 years) and OGD 114 (or maybe OGD BIB)? This seems stupidly obvious and simple - I understand that they're supposed to be the same juice at different ages and proofs - but I am still interested in advice as to what ratios might work best.

Maybe 50/50? Or would more than 50% BH be needed to significantly alter (smooth out/lighten up/sweeten?) the OGD?

This is interesting because most of the vattings above seem to account mostly for differences in mash bill, especially differences in rye vs. wheat content. A BH and ODG blend seems like a perfect chance to figure out how different ages affect vattings. (I am operating under the assumption that the OGD is little more than half the age of BH.)

*Now that I think about it, the would-be clever plan above is really not so original; doesn't SB blend fit the same pattern (but with wheaters instead of rye bourbons)?

Your idea makes perfect sense. My initial thought would be to vat the combo down to 100 proof (a greater ratio of BH to OGD) and give that a try. Let us know how it turns out!

[CoMobourbon]

I really don't apply any marrying time, I think once you blend them in the bottle, it's done. It would be different if the marriage was barreled and stored for a while because further aging would take place.

Your idea makes perfect sense. My initial thought would be to vat the combo down to 100 proof (a greater ratio of BH to OGD) and give that a try. Let us know how it turns out!

My inclination would be to agree with Gary, but as this is my first time vatting, I thought I might try it at various stages.

To that end, I tried the BH / OGD 114 mix a few hours ago (at less than 24 hours after blending). To be clear, I added them at 50/50 (100 ml each), which should put the resultant whiskey at 97 proof. Math was never my best subject, but I'm pretty sure that 80+114/2 = 97.

Simply put, the result was good. Nothing was astounding because nothing was unaccountable; it just turned out like a good balanced mixture of both as expected. The defining features of each, good and bad, were moderated, but in such a way that the weaknesses lost more than the strengths.

I am rambling; let me try to get a little more specific. To make the complex matter of taste simpler, I will say that the front end tasted like the BH while the back end and finish tasted more like the OGD. More of a sweet delicate rye with honey and floral notes on the front/beginning, and more of that unmistakable orange spicy slightly woody dark flavor ("burnt brownie" as somebody sage here once described it) on the back end. I was really surprised at how cleanly these flavors separated and at how nicely they mediated each other. The experience, then, is smoother and sweeter than the OGD but carries more punch and character than the BH alone.

I will try to save some for 2 weeks or at least 1 week, but my first response here is a thumbs up with caveats. It is really good and nicely balanced, but I feel like big fans of BH and big fans of ODG 114 (like me) might not always prefer it to their respective babies. For example, I am unlikely to reach for it when I am in the mood for OGD 114, which is pretty often. Also, I basically never have BH in the house. I imagine that BH fans find themselves in the converse situation.

Here it is (finally I found it!): If you are looking for an improvement on the already formidable ODG BIB or otherwise want a better version of ODG near 100 proof, go for it. If you want ODG 114, though, there is no substitute, and this vatting is no exception.

[Enoch]

I had a bottle of WTR 81 and a bottle of Rebel Yell. I don't care for either so I blended them 1:1 and it produced a fairly drinkable blend. At least I don't have to give them to my daughter's male friends. (Like Mikey, they'll drink anything.)

[CoMobourbon]

For the record, after 1.5 weeks, the 50/50 BH OGD114 vatting seems marginally improved.

That is to say, it was good on the 1st day and is maybe even a little better on the 9-12th day. It might just be my imagination / expectations, but it seems more well integrated. Maybe 1.5 weeks of distance between now and the memory of mixing it play a factor here, but I feel like this vatting tastes like a believable (and excellent) whiskey that a pro might have bottled.

In any case, I think that I will go ahead and vat the rest of my dwindling OGD 114 supply. Sad, bittersweet day.

[ChainWhip]

I really don't apply any marrying time, I think once you blend them in the bottle, it's done. It would be different if the marriage was barreled and stored for a while because further aging would take place.

I know many feel though that a period of resting in the bottle may help, it may well be so, but I don't think the changes would be significant.

Gary

If this is true, I am curious why Balvenie marries various barrels in a Tun for months - is the purpose to further age the whisky? It seems odd considering the ages of the single barrels in those Tun batches.

[Gillman]

I did mention this, the tun is wood and therefore further aging occurs via e.g. the pores in the wood, evaporation, etc. I believe nothing comparable takes place in a sealed bottle although I know some people feel changes occur, and perhaps they do, it's hard really to know.

Gary

[ChainWhip]

Given the ages of those barrels it doesn't seem to make much sense to age them for the few months before bottling.

Unless aging the vatted contents together contributes to a better "marriage" of the barrels?

[JPBoston]

Right now I've got a vatting of 60% OWA and 40% BT. This particular OWA was a little rough-edged, thin and with a brett-like element in the aftertaste, the BT was better but a little spirity. The combination is softer and more complex than either. I added a touch of water too to bring it down just a bit.

Gary

[Brisko]

Another bourbon and rye vatting, and one that I'm quite pleased with: Rittenhouse BiB with just a splash or so of Knob Creek Single Barrel. The older, higher proof KC lends a great deal of depth to the rye, which, while I like it fine as is, does come across a bit young at times. The various KCSBs I've tried seem to consistently have more barrel influence than the standard KC and this one is no different; it's this aspect that seems to play so well with the Rittenhouse.

Also, counterintuitively, the addition of bourbon to the Ritt rye doesn't make it more bourbon-like (many have noted that Ritt is rather bourbon-like already) but actually brings the rye characteristics to the fore.

I'm looking forward to trying this in slightly different ratios, but all in all, it's a combo that I'll be repeating.

[Gillman]

Good points and the one that adding bourbon to rye doesn't necessarily make it taste less rye-like, reminds me of something Chuck once said, that adding more rye in the mash to rye whiskey doesn't necessarily increase the rye taste because it is so prominent already. So same thing here, e.g. 1/3rd bourbon and 2/3 rds a rye-forward drink like Ritt Bond will still have a good rye taste. Of course if you did 9:1 bourbon to rye, that's different since the rye will be counteracted by the overall higher corn content post-mingling, but you will still taste extra rye I think, because again a little goes a long way. It's essentially like boosting the rye small grains in the bourbon, at least if both are roughly the same age (is how I look at it).

Gary

Edited September 10, 2012 by Gillman

[ILLfarmboy]

Just skimmed the thread but I didn't see anyone mentioning WTRB and FRSB. I once mixed this in a 2 to 1 ratio. I thought it was quite good.

[fishnbowljoe]

I was just fooling around a bit the other night when I vatted some KC and TW Samuels BIB. Approximately a 1:1 ratio. I really wasn't expecting much, so the results actually surprised me. Gone was the preverbal Beam "off/yeasty" taste, and the slightly bitter/woody flavor in the Samuels seemed to disappear as well. Not too bad at all.

[Gillman]

This is my experience, that the funky yeast taste of Beam, which is noticeable in KC despite the age and proof, disappears and somehow transforms egregious flavors in less expensive bourbons such as too much bitter or dusty wood (FC?), or too much corn oil. And vice versa I guess.

It's quite remarkable how it works, but it does, IMO.

Adding a third bourbon, e.g. any FR such as Brad mentioned, or a straight rye, can make the vatting even better. Same thing with Jack Daniels SB.

But then it isn't a double-barreled gun anymore.

Gary

Edited November 20, 2012 by Gillman

[Ejmharris]

Not successful at all, Woodford and Weller 12 1 to 1. Flat awful! I thought the sweet oaky flavor would spruce up the WR little but just came out as oaky alcohol.

Mike

[Gillman]

I would try much less WR, maybe 1:3 or 1:4. The Woodford would lend rye and pot still notes to the relatively bland but aged wheater, and the latter would give some further age to the WR, which could stand it IMO.

Gary

[Ejmharris]

Gary, thanks for the input. I will give those ratios a try next time around.

Mike

[jeffrey r]

Down to the last tidbit of of my only Van Winkle bourbon (a Lot B from last fall), and with PVW of any sort being virtually unattainable in the NY/NJ area, I figured I'd take a simple shot at recreating a Lot B with what I had on hand. Took 2/3 Weller 12 for the same essential profile, mixed with 1/3 Vintage 17 wheater for the extra richness and depth it provides, and it was quite delicious. Probably even better than the Lot B due to the V17 adding quite a bit of aged wheated goodness to the mix.

[Gillman]

No problem Mike, give it a shot, pun intentional!

Gary

[TheNovaMan]

Not alcohol, not acetone, but something more like that clear highly toxic fumed model plane glue you used to be able to get lightheaded with by just opening the little tube.

[SFS]

My post was going to be simply "toluene" but that's too short. To me, Testors Model Cement smells strongly of toluene.

It should, it's about 70% toluene.

[shoshani]

I have a house vatting that I like very much: 2/3 Very Old Barton BIB to 1/2 Old Grand-Dad BIB. They complement each other nicely. (I first tried half and half, but I like this ratio better.)

[black mamba]

I find that wheaters vat well. I combined Weller 12, OF 12, DN 1843 and Bernheim in about equal parts and came up with something better than any of them on their own. Several other tasters of this vatting have agreed with me.

[MarkRuck]

I too am a big fan of the 1:1 vatting of Weller 12 and OWA 107. It makes a great whiskey. I am now just buying a 750ml of each, pouring into a large pitcher, and then re-bottling.

I am looking forward to trying some of the other suggestions posted above.

Thanks again for the ideas.

[G-Rat]

This thread made think about blending my two all time favorite bourbons: HH white BiB and VOB BiB. Ratio was 1 part HH to 3 parts VOB. It's got the spiced heat of the HH and (by comparison) the refined less spicy but more orangey flavored of the VOB. Glad I picked up a bunch of both in KY last week!

[Quantum]

I tried one of 3 parts Weller 12 to 1 part Larceny. The Larceny adds a whole new layer of flavor, very interesting. It takes a week or so for the flavors to meld, but I am starting to enjoy it.