"Straight" vs. "Bonded"

[DeWanzo]

Thanks! My Bourbon education is progessing smoothly.

I thought the Bonded 100 proof might mean 'slow down you, 86 proof lightweight'

thanks again

signed

DeWanzo

[Blackkeno]

I don't have a bonded bourbon. Which do you think is the best?

[cowdery]

Bonds are not necessarily better, but they do provide a particular experience. You know what a single barrel bourbon is. Think of a bond as a single batch bourbon. The distiller can't improve it by adding bourbons from other batchs that may add different, desirable characteristics. Like a single barrel, it is what it is.

I wrote an article about this for Malt Advocate that should be coming out shortly. The value of bonds is that they show us what the distiller can accomplish without recourse to any kind of blending.

Old Grand-Dad bond is the most widely available and most popular bonded bourbon. I'm personally very fond of the Old Fitzgerald Bond. The 10-year-old Henry McKenna and Rock Hill Farms are both bonds, but they are also single barrel so, in a way, they don't count. A single barrel is, by definition, the product of a single distillery, distiller and season. A bond like OGD gives you that without going all the way to single barrel.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://cowdery.home.netcom.com>--Chuck Cowdery</A>

[texascarl]

Chuck just mentioned the two bonded bourbons I was going to recommend. I can make it even simpler...the OGD BIB is a great bonded bourbon if you like spicy rye, the Old Fitz BIB is the bonded bourbon to try if you like the smoother wheated style. (And if you live where you can get it, try David Nicholson 1843 BIB, wheat/rye aside)

[MurphyDawg]

Do they have to tell you what distillery they are from to be bonded, or do you just have to be happy knowing it is from just one?

TomC

[bobbyc]

That's a good question Tom and I don't know the answer. Chuck no doubt will. I do know they have all sorts of names they call themselves as they are making different products . For instance HH calls itself Old Evan Williams , at least on the bottle when making that brand but is HH otherwise. JimBeam uses Clear Springs Distilling Company sometimes. This is only on the bottles they don't go as far as changing the signs on the sides of the buildings, and I suppose they don't change their letterhead either. Gary & Mardee Regan go in to this a bit somewhere in their book. back in the old days when there were more players in the game as it were and a bunch of contract distilling going on , at some point they started making signs and if you could afford to take the whole days run they would place a placard with your name on it and call the distillery that for the day ,week ,or month. They also referred to this as the shingle business. Where someone would own their own labels and have an outlet for whiskey but not own their own distillery .

Bobby Cox

[cowdery]

Tom wrote: "Do they have to tell you what distillery they are from to be bonded?" Nope. They have to tell the government, but they don't have to tell us.

"...or do you just have to be happy knowing it is from just one?" Yep.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://cowdery.home.netcom.com>--Chuck Cowdery</A>

[cowdery]

I don't think they still change the shingles, but I think they do have to legally register their dba ("doing business as") names.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://cowdery.home.netcom.com>--Chuck Cowdery</A>

[OneCubeOnly]

While at Brown-Forman, I was acquainted with Frost 8/80.

When I was calling on Brown-Forman, you knew you were in trouble if the subject of Frost 8/80 was even raised. It usually meant they were going to compare what you were proposing with Frost, which meant it was not going to happen. I'm not sure when that product was sold, probably in the 60s (certainly before my time there), but its failure and the lessons learned from that experience continued to be part of the company's culture for a long time thereafter.

I was going to start a new thread asking what the deal was with Frost 8/80, but found this by searching first. I had never heard of the stuff, but ran across an advertisement for it in a March 1972 magazine. Clear bourbon! How did it taste!?

[cowdery]

I don't know. I just know it was Brown-Forman's Edsel. For all I know, it haunts them still.

[OneCubeOnly]

I'm assuming this was B-F's attempt to capture a share of the clear spirits boom...I just wonder what barrel-aged bourbon could possibly taste like after it's been filtered clear!!?!

I suppose it's easy in retrospect to guess why Frost was such a failure--people that pour the clear stuff aren't exactly looking for aged whiskey taste!

[boone]

Hi Gary,

I have a article about Heaven Hill trying a new venture...lots of rumors have circulated with this story. It was a attempt for a "light" bourbon...

I will try to find it and post it here for you.

Bettye Jo

[OneCubeOnly]

I have a article about Heaven Hill trying a new venture...lots of rumors have circulated with this story. It was a attempt for a "light" bourbon...

I will try to find it and post it here for you.

Awesome! I'd be interested to see if it's "light" meaning clear vs. "light" meaning lighter-tasting. I wish I could have tried this Frost stuff...I suppose it'd only be a step or two above corn whiskey!?

Thanks Bettye Jo!

[boone]

Here it is ...

Bettye Jo

[cowdery]

Is the date on that article 1963 or 1968? It's hard to tell.

Yes, "Light Whiskey" was a bit of a fiasco. If it had caught on at all, it would have faced another more subtle problem, which is the fact that "light" was coming to mean reduced calorie, which this product was not. It was lighter in color, body and taste, but contained a full portion of alcohol and, therefore, calories.

The worst part about light whiskey was that it wasn't a product that could be made with exisiting equipment. It required a fairly expensive capital investment. I would bet that when the HH distillery burned down, that equipment was still sitting there unusued.

Mark Brown of Buffalo Trace told me a story about touring the place one day with Elmer Lee. They came across what appeared to be an unusued column still. Mark asked about it and Elmer replied, with barely concealed contempt, that it was the still for making light whiskey. Mark, being the good businessman, asked if it could be used for anything else. Elmer replied, again with barely concealed contempt, "I guess you could make vodka with it."

And thus Rain Vodka was born.

[boone]

It's 1968...The article is from The Kentucky Standard.

Bettye Jo

[LeNell]

That's a great story! I love selling the Rain at LeNell's so I'll have to remember this. When Light Bourbon goes flop...fabulous vodka!