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kevinbrink

Compared to the price of the  14 yr DT Bellevue that is out there $99 seems like a steal. 

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Lance

love El Darado 12 and 15, but I think my new favorite is Kirk and Sweeney 23

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Kpiz

K&L’s David Driscoll talks to Alexandre Gabriel of Ferrand/Plantation about aging and blending rum, and addresses the dosage issue: http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2018/2/25/an-interview-with-ferrands-alexandre-gabriel.html

It’s worth a read as there are some interesting tidbits about blending, cask selection, proofing, etc. of course, I also have a couple nitpicks with Mr. Gabriel’s responses here:

1. He says the maximum amount of sugar they add to rum is 16g/liter and equates this to adding 1/12th of a sugar cube to your coffee. This is incredibly inaccurate. A standard sugar cube is a teaspoon of sugar, which weighs 4 grams (I had to google how much a sugar cube weighs). Their maximum dosage, then, is 4 cubes (or 4 teaspoons) of sugar per liter. So if this is the same ratio of sugar as 1/12th cube to a cup of coffee, the cup of coffee would have to be 0.7 ounces for his statement to hold true.

2. In the second to last sentence of the interview he states that he is trying to preserve the traditions of rum making in Barbados and Jamaica: “To be able to be part of this Jamaican heritage, as well as that of Barbados, and to try to preserve and maintain these traditions has been both fascinating and humbling”. Granted, he’s talking about muck pits and esters at this point in the interview, but my sticking point holds. He’s adding sugar to spirits whose countries of origin forbid adding sugar, so it’s very hard for me to believe that he’s concerned with preserving tradition.

Anyone else have strong feelings one way or the other after reading this interview? Was anyone won over by his arguments for dosage?

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tanstaafl2
8 hours ago, Kpiz said:

K&L’s David Driscoll talks to Alexandre Gabriel of Ferrand/Plantation about aging and blending rum, and addresses the dosage issue: http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2018/2/25/an-interview-with-ferrands-alexandre-gabriel.html

It’s worth a read as there are some interesting tidbits about blending, cask selection, proofing, etc. of course, I also have a couple nitpicks with Mr. Gabriel’s responses here:

1. He says the maximum amount of sugar they add to rum is 16g/liter and equates this to adding 1/12th of a sugar cube to your coffee. This is incredibly inaccurate. A standard sugar cube is a teaspoon of sugar, which weighs 4 grams (I had to google how much a sugar cube weighs). Their maximum dosage, then, is 4 cubes (or 4 teaspoons) of sugar per liter. So if this is the same ratio of sugar as 1/12th cube to a cup of coffee, the cup of coffee would have to be 0.7 ounces for his statement to hold true.

2. In the second to last sentence of the interview he states that he is trying to preserve the traditions of rum making in Barbados and Jamaica: “To be able to be part of this Jamaican heritage, as well as that of Barbados, and to try to preserve and maintain these traditions has been both fascinating and humbling”. Granted, he’s talking about muck pits and esters at this point in the interview, but my sticking point holds. He’s adding sugar to spirits whose countries of origin forbid adding sugar, so it’s very hard for me to believe that he’s concerned with preserving tradition.

Anyone else have strong feelings one way or the other after reading this interview? Was anyone won over by his arguments for dosage?

 

The numbers he notes for the volume of sugar don't seem to add up as you note. I don't know how long either Barbados or Jamaican have had rules on added sugar in rum so it is hard to know what is truly "traditional" for those islands. Certainly a lot of their past production was traditionally taken elsewhere and blended with rums from other countries (along with added sugar no doubt).

 

His statement about distilling rum seems to imply that Plantation has been distilling rum for a long time but that is not the case as far as I know. It is only recently that they are distillers of rum. Prior to that he was buying rum from multiple sources. I guess I just don't appreciate a "great" Cognac. Most of the expensive big house cognac I have had tasted a bit bland and artificial. "Unadulterated" cognac (you know, like the ones K&L has periodically sold...) never tasted like bread without salt in comparison to the big house cognacs to me. Or else I am just not particularly sophisticated and like bread without salt!

 

"We can bring rum to the standard of a great Cognac. I must say that rum has come a long way since then. It's not just Plantation, other distilleries are now doing a great job as well."

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Kpiz
 
The numbers he notes for the volume of sugar don't seem to add up as you note. I don't know how long either Barbados or Jamaican have had rules on added sugar in rum so it is hard to know what is truly "traditional" for those islands. Certainly a lot of their past production was traditionally taken elsewhere and blended with rums from other countries (along with added sugar no doubt).
 
His statement about distilling rum seems to imply that Plantation has been distilling rum for a long time but that is not the case as far as I know. It is only recently that they are distillers of rum. Prior to that he was buying rum from multiple sources. I guess I just don't appreciate a "great" Cognac. Most of the expensive big house cognac I have had tasted a bit bland and artificial. "Unadulterated" cognac (you know, like the ones K&L has periodically sold...) never tasted like bread without salt in comparison to the big house cognacs to me. Or else I am just not particularly sophisticated and like bread without salt!
 
"We can bring rum to the standard of a great Cognac. I must say that rum has come a long way since then. It's not just Plantation, other distilleries are now doing a great job as well."


Don’t let that fancy Frenchman get you down, I think you’re plenty sophisticated!

The salted bread comment didn’t stick with me, either. I think it’s a poor analogy and it’s somewhat insulting to producers who make great cognac without additives.

Also, good point about Barbados and Jamaica additive laws, I don’t actually know how long they’ve had them in place either. I found this document that indicates it has been in place since at least 1986 in Jamaica (see Part IV, section 34): http://moj.gov.jm/sites/default/files/laws/The%20Excise%20Duty%20Act.pdf. My gut tells me added sugar has been illegal longer in Barbados but I can’t immediately find anything.

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smokinjoe
On 2/26/2018 at 5:00 AM, Kpiz said:


Anyone else have strong feelings one way or the other after reading this interview? Was anyone won over by his arguments for dosage?

 

Not strong feelings, but this interview just dropped a big turd in the “Cognac, Rum, and other spirits, are the next big pure things to us who’ve grown tired of the bourbon boom”, folks...  I bet Sku hasn’t slept in days...:lol:

 

This is only going to get more entertaining!  

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RWBadley

A very interesting read, and a perspective from a pro with decades of experience. I have enjoyed Ferrand products many times in the past, but have since found other avenues for spirits enjoyment. I know Brandies are notably hard to market in a 'pure' form, and they could surely not get much monies for selling 2-4 years old without adjuncts added to smooth and flavor.

 

To me Cognac is a tasty drink, but one not to be judged for any sort of 'purity', as there is none. And the whole vs, vsop, xo thing is ridiculous.  Not a big deal if someone else is buying, but for myself it became difficult to justify any major coin spent on the spirit. Tasting the sweetened and false age Rums it became a similar point of contention.

 

Sticking to Bourbon and Scotch generally warrants what the label states as being the genuine article. Not a misleading age or additive contained therein. At least with the majors...

 

I am glad to see more often Rum being marketed and sold with the direct knowledge that it should be as stated- Thanks to some individuals and producers. We can all vote with our $$ and try to encourage more of the same.

 

Cheers,

RW

 

 

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NightCru
On 2/26/2018 at 5:00 AM, Kpiz said:



1. He says the maximum amount of sugar they add to rum is 16g/liter and equates this to adding 1/12th of a sugar cube to your coffee. This is incredibly inaccurate. A standard sugar cube is a teaspoon of sugar, which weighs 4 grams (I had to google how much a sugar cube weighs). Their maximum dosage, then, is 4 cubes (or 4 teaspoons) of sugar per liter. So if this is the same ratio of sugar as 1/12th cube to a cup of coffee, the cup of coffee would have to be 0.7 ounces for his statement to hold true.

 

Maybe he was referring to an espresso and not a typical American cup of coffee?  That wasn’t my first thought but i also didn’t do the math. That’s an interesting catch. 

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sailor22

He is charming and can shade the truth with the very best politicians. I have enjoyed his company for drinks and dinner at Tales but in this article he comes off as an arrogant european intent on "improving" the product of those loutish Caribbean producers - I call bullshit on him and his attitudes along with his justification of sugaring his products.  He is simply playing to the markets taste for sweetened products and posing as a traditional producer.

At a tasting Plantation sponsored a few years ago he presented his rums from 8 different sources and they were far more similar than dissimilar (which they should have been) because of his added sugar and blending -   and then he presented two "undinkable" rums that came straight from the barrel as an example of how his manipulations and added sugar saved them - those two were frankly the only two really interesting pours he presented.

His "dosage" isn't a traditional cognac practice at all, modern producers use it to reach the market that prefers sweeter products....more bullshit.

Before he began using "dosage" as justification he used to describe in detail how every single barrel they had was sampled twice a year and when necessary the barrel was disassembled and reassembled with different wood that would make the product sweeter.  Given the amount of barrels Plantation has it is a preposterous story that he never mentions any more.

 

Take what Gabriel says with a grain of salt.

 

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RWBadley
3 hours ago, sailor22 said:

/snip

 

Take what Gabriel says with a grain of salt.

 

And a spoonful of sugar! :D

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smokinjoe
24 minutes ago, RWBadley said:

And a spoonful of sugar! :D

I wondered you was going to step up and take a swing at that one!  :lol:

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kevinbrink

Hey look Doorly's 12 comes in a box now, at least the first time I have seen it, Foursquare sure is prominent on the packaging:

y4mgaEoZ68WtW6ZS_8ZfXSp6NX5c9WloI7AD-Rk4

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