Brisko Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The CEHT line is a tool for BT to use to raise prices on bourbon across the board; considering it their rye-recipe equivalent to the VW line gives them away.I wonder if it's more an attempt to decouple pricing from the factors of proof/age/relative scarcity and instead base it on perceived value?Because that's the only way the EHT pricing makes any sense in comparison to the BTAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey Manthey Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The CEHT line is a tool for BT to use to raise prices on bourbon across the board; considering it their rye-recipe equivalent to the VW line gives them away. It seems pretty clear to me that their priority with the brand has been to create a slot in their portfolio that is expensive. The bourbon has come after the price and branding.I think I am OK with this. I'll still complain about the premium price with everyone else, but I think BT is doing the same thing I would do in their situation.As their company's product is becoming more in demand, rather than just raising prices on the existing labels, BT is offering a new, high-end brand experience. I am assuming if CEHT bottles are going to be a regular release, BT will have to start aging certain earmarked barrels in a certain way, and in a certain timeline. As any smart business would, they've mitigated risk in their initial offerings, and are testing the market with products that don't require a huge up front investment. Time will tell if their subsequent releases meet the high standards that Pappy/BTAC have set in the marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Now that the boubon haze has lifted, what concerns me the most about this is that every release seems to be getting younger. Col. Taylor will be 4 y/o by 2014 at this rate. Age isn't everything, of course, and I believe people who've tasted it when they say it's good, but at those prices I expect something older. Even the best 7 y/o isn't going to have the complexity of a run of the mill 12 y/o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWF Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I wonder if it's more an attempt to decouple pricing from the factors of proof/age/relative scarcity and instead base it on perceived value?Because that's the only way the EHT pricing makes any sense in comparison to the BTAC.rather than just raising prices on the existing labels, BT is offering a new, high-end brand experience.I think Trey's got it with the new brand angle. BT will ultimately get much less slack for introducing a new brand at an elevated price than they would by dramatically increasing the prices on already established brands. BTAC prices have already gone up significantly since they were first introduced, but they can't tack on another $20 MSRP from one year to the next; even enthusiasts wouldn't stand for that, especially since so many of us have bunkered bottles from years past.Starting the CEHT line at an already inflated price gives them the flexibility to keep the price steady for the foreseeable future. During that time, as bourbon prices rise in general, whiskey drinkers' expectations for what constitutes a $70 value will adjust. It's a shitty position to be in as a consumer, but thems the breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShewDawg Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I think I am OK with this. I'll still complain about the premium price with everyone else, but I think BT is doing the same thing I would do in their situation.As their company's product is becoming more in demand, rather than just raising prices on the existing labels, BT is offering a new, high-end brand experience. I am assuming if CEHT bottles are going to be a regular release, BT will have to start aging certain earmarked barrels in a certain way, and in a certain timeline. As any smart business would, they've mitigated risk in their initial offerings, and are testing the market with products that don't require a huge up front investment. Time will tell if their subsequent releases meet the high standards that Pappy/BTAC have set in the marketplace.Well said. They make a high quality product at what they view as a discounted price. Their raising of the price has been justified by the demand increasing. I no longer see PVW/BTAC last more than a week on the shelf, which was not always the case. I know it's anecodotal, but seeing responses on here, many others are experiencing the same.We, being the bourbon nuts, are our own worst enemy here. I doubt they have seen their sales drop over the last several years, in fact, they have probably moved more product than they ever have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 They may be looking for a product that isn't a one-off like Tornado and Sour Mash, that they can put out as much of as the market will bear. If you think about Van Winkle and its evolution over the last ten or more years, it seems to stand more than anything else for the proposition that significant numbers of people will pay a huge price to, basically, show off. Not really the bourbon enthusiast approach, which is based on actually knowing something about what you're buying, but it's hard for any business to resist taking money from people so anxious to give it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanL Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 BT really has become an amazing marketing machine. I wonder how long until SRP on the whole BTAC goes up. The Single Oak Project proved to us they will sell crappy bourbon at a premium...why wouldn't they start selling good bourbon at an even higher premium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutton Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 All good points - my confusion rests with what they are really doing with CEHT as a brand. I just don't know what to expect; and at $65-$70 a crack, I'd think they'd have some consistency with the profile other than just putting a big price on a nice bourbon in a Scotch-whisky tube.All of the other products that carry a legacy name at least more or less conform to a basic profile: ETL, Van Winkle, Blanton's, etc. What exactly is CEHT supposed to be? That was why I thought the original sour mash was so intriguing. They were re-creating the recipe (or so I thought) that Col. Taylor had utilized. I thought that was great and had promise if they pursued it consistently.Is CEHT supposed to be BT's version of HH's Parker's Heritage series? You just never know what the next release will be, based on whatever really interesting barrels they stumble across in the warehouse that don't fit another established profile, but they know they can get a high price for? If so, fine ... I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BourbonJoe Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I opened a bottle of this at our bourbon tasting today. The boys all loved it and asked where they could buy it.Joe :usflag: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 OK, boys. Which one of you has the cojones to offer the dissenting opinion? Huddle up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad_scientist Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I opened a bottle of this at our bourbon tasting today. The boys all loved it and asked where they could buy it.Joe :usflag:The uncut, 134.5 proof one? How did you get that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 The uncut, 134.5 proof one? How did you get that? If you have to ask, you aren't allowed to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad_scientist Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 If you have to ask, you aren't allowed to know. Yeah, I knew as soon as I sent it that it was a stupid question, but I didn't try to edit it to make myself seem wiser. As they say in DC, it's not the crime that gets you, it's the coverup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigarnv Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 " if it tastes good, sell it".Dave... as important 'if it tastes good, buy it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburlowski Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Dave... as important 'if it tastes good, buy it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey Manthey Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Even the best 7 y/o isn't going to have the complexity of a run of the mill 12 y/o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulO Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 So its like paying the same amount as Stagg for half the age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailor22 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I have to disagree. An outstanding 6 year old whiskey like THH can certainly hold its own against a 12 year like EC12.I also don't believe that BT is planning on seeing how far they can take it. Like selling 4 year old or less mediocre bourbon for $100+. That's your average craft distillery. Without having tasted the product yet, I doubt BT would release a barrel proof bourbon if it wasn't fantastic. This is the same distillery that produces GTS and WLW, after all. I really wish that I could have been in the meetings where they hatched the plan to release CEHT. They are in such an interesting position within their market. They almost have the market cornered on highly prestigious/status symbol American whiskey with Pappy and BTAC. Granted, it is also highly delicious, but would you stockpile it and hunt for it and brag about it to your friends if you could buy it any day of the week? So even if they could release those labels year round, it would be a bad move, as the customer's perception of value goes down. So what to do to increase sales volume? Start a new high-end label. But how would they create the perceived value of prestige in the marketplace? Put an old, dead guy on the label and relate his charming, historically significant back story. No, they already did that. Or they could release limited edition bottles of whiskey that is either too unique or too good to dump into any other batch until they've aged enough juice to make a regular release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburlowski Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Yeah, if it's young Stagg we can call it fawn, or Bambi. I guess I'm a bit disappointed that we haven't seen BT offer something along the lines of the original Taylor recipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rughi Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 It's only been a few years since BT acquired the Taylor brand. How can you expect them to already be offering something along the original Taylor recipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulO Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 It's only been a few years since BT acquired the Taylor brand. How can you expect them to already be offering something along the original Taylor recipe? I think they could have waited until the original Taylor mash bill recipe whiskey was ready, then released that. I know BT owns the brand, and can do as they like. Regardless, whatever they do will be better than the barely mediocre Beam version of Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_elliott Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 They only made 4 barrels of that original recipe so there won't be much of it to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restaurant man Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 So it's possible that the limited releases are to build excitement/pass time until the old recipe is ready for roll out. My understanding was that BT was releasing various types of recipes so that one could be selected for a regular offering under the EH Taylor label. But obviously the tornado is a departure from that mold. The single barrel was just dumb. So they haven't really done much beyond the first release that follows what I understood was the original plan (as announced) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmckenzie Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Yeah, if it's young Stagg we can call it fawn, or Bambi. I guess I'm a bit disappointed that we haven't seen BT offer something along the lines of the original Taylor recipe. I keep hearing how people love the pre-Beam dusties. Maybe that will come. I don't know. In some ways BT is doing the same thing as Beam did with the Taylor brand. They both put the brand name on stuff they allready had around. The difference is Beam used Taylor as a bottom shelf dogs and cats type of brand. The funny thing is some stores have both the cheap, and expensive Taylors at the same time. I would love to see BT make a modern dusty if you will. But I am pretty sure that things have been re engineered in the big distilleries that it would be next to impossible. And all micros have pots, but one I know may have a column soon that can produce a modern dusty if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have to disagree. An outstanding 6 year old whiskey like THH can certainly hold its own against a 12 year like EC12.I also don't believe that BT is planning on seeing how far they can take it. Like selling 4 year old or less mediocre bourbon for $100+. That's your average craft distillery. Without having tasted the product yet, I doubt BT would release a barrel proof bourbon if it wasn't fantastic. This is the same distillery that produces GTS and WLW, after all. I really wish that I could have been in the meetings where they hatched the plan to release CEHT. They are in such an interesting position within their market. They almost have the market cornered on highly prestigious/status symbol American whiskey with Pappy and BTAC. Granted, it is also highly delicious, but would you stockpile it and hunt for it and brag about it to your friends if you could buy it any day of the week? So even if they could release those labels year round, it would be a bad move, as the customer's perception of value goes down. So what to do to increase sales volume? Start a new high-end label. But how would they create the perceived value of prestige in the marketplace? Put an old, dead guy on the label and relate his charming, historically significant back story. No, they already did that. Or they could release limited edition bottles of whiskey that is either too unique or too good to dump into any other batch until they've aged enough juice to make a regular release.Oh...i dont know about that. BT has been selling mediocre 10yr bourbon in 350ml bottles for 69.00 here in Texas. These little gems are the Buffalo Trace Project Oak experiments. 70 dollars for a bourbon that has a 90% or more chance of sucking in a 350ml bottle. That's not coming from a craft distiller. At least with CEHT,it has been selected for goodness and comes in 750mls. Same price tag too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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