Anybody else finding Elijah Craig 20 to be a rip off?

[Enoch]

I wish I could find some EC18 dusties. I'd buy them all. I couldn't believe how fast they disappeared from shelves. Thought I'd have more time. Oh well. It's not worth $130 though.

NC reduced them to clearance at $25 each so I picked up a few.

[angler82]

NH had EC18 on sale for $32 for the longest time. I always thought the EC18 was gross.

[B.B. Babington]

Weren't the last few "batches" of EC18 actually 20 years old anyway?

I thought so, but I assume the ones pulled for "20 yo" were select better barrels. I've not had labeled 20yo to compare.

[Trey Manthey]

I don't know the costs of producing a barrel of whiskey, storing it for 20 years, tasting it, creating a label, dumping it, bottling it and distributing it. However, I can't figure how they make a material amount of money if any solely on this line. The benefit must be prestige that works in favor of their EC12 line which I imaging has far greater production.

I don't think that the current EC20 bottling is supposed to be an ongoing release with a 20 year business plan. They had to temporarily suspend EC18 production because they are presumably out of adequately aged stocks. However, they had some 20 year lying around that was about to go over the hill. Rather than just do another EC18 release with older whiskey, they slapped a new label on and made some extra cash. It also served the purpose of testing the market's willingness to shell out more for an older bourbon. That way, when EC18 starts getting bottled again, people won't object as much when it's $80 instead of $40-50. They'll just be like, "Hey, it's $50 cheaper than the 20 year!"

[Lazer]

I have a new found respect for EC20. No, I haven't bought it or tasted it yet, since when does that matter? I respect it because its one of the only "Whiskeys of the Year" that's pretty widely available. I was recently on a hunt for parker's 2012 and FRSmb 2012 and couldn't find the FR and only found the parker's marked up to $130. But there was the EC20 sitting pretty in almost every store I checked from $121 to $129. It may be expensive, but at least I have the chance to get my hands on it if I really want it bad enough. Can't say the same thing for other whiskeys.

Would you rather live in a world where the "best rated whiskeys" were expensive, but available or a world where they kept the price down, but no where to be found?

(implied in my post is, just because some people find it a let down, doesn't mean it is... and just because some people love it, doesn't mean its great)

[Parkersback]

I respect it because its one of the only "Whiskeys of the Year" that's pretty widely available.

Strictly speaking, this isn't true. That whiskey of the year is long gone. John Hansell rated a single barrel offering of EC20 available at the Heaven Hill gift shop as "Whiskey of the Year". There's was lots of ranting on his blog for the very same reason you raise, i.e. why would you rate this whiskey of the year when almost nobody can buy it? John basically said, "Sorry, I thought it was the best."

Heaven Hill then takes this good fortune and runs with it by releasing lots & lots of barrels of EC20 with a new label and a higher price tag. But if you look closely, those new labels do not say, "Whiskey of the Year", because they cannot. Hansell specifically said the whiskey of the year was from that one barrel. The new label says something like, "Taken from the same stocks as the Whiskey of the Year" or something like that. Hansell tasted some of these later barrels and said, "Yeah, these are good, but not as good as the whiskey I called "Whiskey of the Year".

So, when you buy the current EC20, you are probably getting something very akin to the whiskey of the year. But you could probably say the same thing about the last few years of EC18.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Parkersback

[Lazer]

Strictly speaking, this isn't true. That whiskey of the year is long gone. John Hansell rated a single barrel offering of EC20 available at the Heaven Hill gift shop as "Whiskey of the Year". There's was lots of ranting on his blog for the very same reason you raise, i.e. why would you rate this whiskey of the year when almost nobody can buy it? John basically said, "Sorry, I thought it was the best."

Heaven Hill then takes this good fortune and runs with it by releasing lots & lots of barrels of EC20 with a new label and a higher price tag. But if you look closely, those new labels do not say, "Whiskey of the Year", because they cannot. Hansell specifically said the whiskey of the year was from that one barrel. The new label says something like, "Taken from the same stocks as the Whiskey of the Year" or something like that. Hansell tasted some of these later barrels and said, "Yeah, these are good, but not as good as the whiskey I called "Whiskey of the Year".

So, when you buy the current EC20, you are probably getting something very akin to the whiskey of the year. But you could probably say the same thing about the last few years of EC18.

Ok we're spliting hairs here, my point is stop with the communist allocation vip lists and just jack up the price and if you don't like it you can move to Cuba where you have the freedom to eat $h!t*. :cool:

[squire]

I feel fortunate to have access to such whiskies, whether I choose to buy them or not. I was around (pre-vodka days) when good Bourbons were widely available but think the Golden Age may well be now.

[White Dog]

I have a new found respect for EC20. No, I haven't bought it or tasted it yet, since when does that matter? I respect it because its one of the only "Whiskeys of the Year" that's pretty widely available. I was recently on a hunt for parker's 2012 and FRSmb 2012 and couldn't find the FR and only found the parker's marked up to $130. But there was the EC20 sitting pretty in almost every store I checked from $121 to $129. It may be expensive, but at least I have the chance to get my hands on it if I really want it bad enough. Can't say the same thing for other whiskeys.

Would you rather live in a world where the "best rated whiskeys" were expensive, but available or a world where they kept the price down, but no where to be found?

(implied in my post is, just because some people find it a let down, doesn't mean it is... and just because some people love it, doesn't mean its great)

If EC20 was really all that, you wouldn't find it on the shelf.

[Lazer]

If EC20 was really all that, you wouldn't find it on the shelf.

nope, $120 is the leave it on the shelf for someone else price. At $60 you wouldn't find it.

[michaelturtle1]

The hardest part for me to justify the $120.00 is that it sits on the shelf in my local store next to bottles of EC18 for $49.99...I might end up with one someday but until the EC18 runs out, I won't even consider purchasing it

[docbible]

I was fortunate to have tried the origional and second bottling of EC20. The origional was outstanding with the second not far behind. I do agree with John's 'Whiskey of the Year" as it was that good. Sadly, my bottle is empty but I still have two of the second barrel. The cost of the current EC20 on the shelf is much cheaper and more readily available to those who could not make the trip to Bardstown. The EC21 that is currently a heritage center only bottling was the standout for this year's KY trip. EC18 was my go to bourbon and I bunkered a few McScrooge's pick when the temporary stop was announced, we had ample warning. I am glad that the EC20 is on the shelf for others to try. I'm sad as well that a great, under priced bourbon is off the shelf..... temporarily. However, it does not warrant or justify Heaven Hill bashing IMO. tim

[AaronWF]

My benchmark EC18 is a Binny's barrel from 2010 barreled 5/15/92. It had all of the great qualities of the HH profile with rummy raisins, chewy figs, balanced citrus, soft candied licorice and some dry oak, but in perfect balance and retaining an overall vibrancy. Other EC18s I've had have paled in comparison, though still a pretty good deal for $50. I had a small taste of the EC20 barrel that Hansell so adored, and it was along the lines of the 5/15/92 but more so, as well as richer and more buttery; well-deserving of the praise.

I tasted an EC20 from a local bar (Longman & Eagle: 1.5oz serving for $17 - damn fair) with a barrel date of... I think it was 3/91, though I could be wrong. It, too, was along the lines of the coveted 5/15/92s, however, unlike the Hansell honey barrel, the added buttery richness took away some of the complexity and vibrancy I found in my favored EC18. Then I tasted another EC20 from some other barrel that I can't recall, and it was utterly flat. Overly dry, over-oaked, it had the buttery richness going for it, but no vibrancy and any fruit showed up as stale.

So, it's a crap shoot. $130 is waaaay too much to pay for such a crapshoot, I think, because clearly there are some crappy barrels in the bunch, and it would just suck if you spent $130 for sour, overly aged HH stock. If that's what you're looking for, see KBD...

[woody]

I cannot speak to the original question having never had the 18 or the 20 yet. I have been looking for the 18 for a while with no luck. Then today, I walked into a store I haven't been to in a while and there on the shelf was 2 bottles of 18. I bought both for $44 each. Both barreled on the same day, but different barrels (2858 vs. 2861). Will there be much difference between the 2 as the barrel numbers are so close? Have any of you had these specific barrels? I don't want to open both to find out yet, as one will be a gift to a friend.

As a side note, I am also looking for Eagle Rare 17 somewhere in the Lansing, Jackson, Ann Arbor areas. If anyone can help point me in the right direction it would be appreciated.

[HighInTheMtns]

Two barrels, filled on the same day with the same distillate, and racked next to each other in the same warehouse, can each end up very different from the other.

[spinningrecords]

Two barrels, filled on the same day with the same distillate, and racked next to each other in the same warehouse, can each end up very different from the other.

Yes they can end up different.

[squire]

And these differences are melded together into a greater whole by the skill of the blender.

[BourbonRob]

YES....way too expensive

[Trey Manthey]

And these differences are melded together into a greater whole by the skill of the blender.

Ah, the job of the "single barrel blender." I bet you can really phone that one in.

[B.B. Babington]

Ah, the job of the "single barrel blender." I bet you can really phone that one in.

I think he meant in general, rather than EC20 in particular. A good blender can create interesting products, like 4R Mariage, or can try to keep consistency for mass produced product.

[balassit]

In NYC this week. Still seeing a lot of 18 around up here on the shelves. Can't find it anywhere in TN. All around $100 here though. Haven't had 20 yet, but the 18 I have has been great.