Hooker's House 21 Year Old Bourbon General's Reserve

[Chris24]

Has anyone tried this? I saw it in a store while traveling for about $160. It was more expensive than I was willing to gamble on it, but I'm curious if others thought it was worthwhile.

http://www.bountyhunterwine.com/mmBOUNTYWINE/images/hooker_house_21.jpg

[OscarV]

$160.00?!?

Check out this review, they like it but they say it's $36.00.

http://sourmashmanifesto.com/2012/02/27/review-hookers-house-bourbon/

[Ejmharris]

$160.00?!?

Check out this review, they like it but they say it's $36.00.

http://sourmashmanifesto.com/2012/02/27/review-hookers-house-bourbon/

The $36 is for the regular hookers house. First I have seen the 21 year old. Where did the procure the 21 year whiskey from? Stocks from someone who didn't like how it aged?

[Kalessin]

Hm. The product is named for Maj. Gen. Joe Hooker, who fought in the Civil War on the Union side.

There doesn't seem to be any background, reason or lore that the whiskey was named after him, so I'll just leave a few photos from near where his statue can be found at the Massachusetts State House:

Specialists, I suspect, arrive by motorcade and are brought in through the garage. :slappin:

[tanstaafl2]

Before the War Hooker lived for a few years in California (in Sonoma, CA according to the website), hence the connection to the company that bottles it which is also in Sonoma, California.

Hooker House Bourbon is a tribute to General Joseph Hooker (Fighting Joe) and his over indulgence and sometime outrageous behavior lifestyle. Although his military practice was often questioned, his love of whiskey and women were not.

The website makes no mention of the 21 yo Hooker's...

[p_elliott]

Gen Hooker is where we get the term Hooker for prostitutes as he allowed them to travel with with his troupes. When on lookers would see them they would say who are they? Someone would say they are "Hooker's".

Edited November 28, 2012 by p_elliott

[IowaJeff]

Gen Hooker is where we get the term Hooker for prostitutes as he allowed them to travel with with his troupes. When on lookers would see them they would say who are they someone would say they are "Hooker's".

I never know what I'm going to learn on this board!

[squire]

It is not worthwhile for me Chris. For that price I want to know a bit more what I'm buying, who made it, where was it aged, is it a prime barrel or something not bottled before now because it wasn't that good to begin with. Some stock is bought, sold, and may even travel a bit as there have been a good many changes in the industry in the past two decades. I don't believe age alone is any justification for a top end price.

Regards,

Squire

[tanstaafl2]

Gen Hooker is where we get the term Hooker for prostitutes as he allowed them to travel with with his troupes. When on lookers would see them they would say who are they someone would say they are "Hooker's".

I tried make a little double entendre to that effect with the line "The website makes no mention of the 21 yo Hooker's..." but my own sense of humor doesn't always mesh with others!

The "professional" girls that used to tag along with the General during the war were typically referred to as "Hooker's girls" but eventually the girls part got dropped and the became known as "Hooker's" as noted. Obviously the name stuck!

[cowdery]

Having posted so many signs for it, the facilities folks at the Massachusetts State House clearly enjoy the joke as much as we do.

[cowdery]

As for the whiskey, and for any very old whiskey from a non-distiller producer, you can apply the following reasoning. (1) They didn't make it. They're not a distiller. (2) It's highly unlikely they bought it when young and aged it to 21 themselves, because nobody does that. They bought 21-year-old whiskey. (3) If this whiskey is outstanding and worth every penny of its $160 price, why did the real producer sell it wholesale?

Typically very old bourbon or rye that finds its way into the bulk market gets there because it has been rejected by the people who made it, and possibly by one or more of their contract production customers, until it finds its way to the bottler/broker who generally sells to small outfits like this one.

There's one exception to the above, which is MGPI Indiana (formerly LDI, formerly Seagram's), and this could have come from them. A comment on Sour Mash Manifesto makes a good case for the regular Hooker's being from there. They don't sell any brands themselves but with them you have to ask, if this stuff is so great why didn't somebody buy it when it was, let's say, 17? Also, while I like their rye, I haven't been very impressed by their bourbon. I've had a 14-year-old from there, the Very Old Scout, and was unimpressed.

Why does MGPI Indiana even have 21-year-old bourbon? They don't have much of it, an odd barrel here and there. Why do they have it at all? Remember that all of the MGPI Indiana whiskeys were made to be ingredients in blends. At least one of their blends probably called for some 10-12 year old bourbon, but what they don't use keeps aging. Barrels that make it to 21 are, in a sense, leftovers. It was Pernod that first began to sell the leftovers to micro-producers, while it still owned the plant. That was in about 2005, when what is 21 now was 14. Now you can say that nobody bought it these last seven years because it only just got good, in which case you might be interested in buying this bridge.

Finally, as others have said, if somebody wants me to pay $160 for a 21-year-old bourbon, they better be able to tell me where it was made and a lot more besides.

Edited November 27, 2012 by cowdery

[tanstaafl2]

I would also certainly want to know if this is bourbon finished in wine casks like the younger version is. Can't really tell from the picture in the the first post. Maybe the finishing turns an average old whiskey magically into something greater. Seems unlikey but who knows?

I wouldn't mind trying the younger stuff just out of curiosity were I able to get hold of it. Which also seems unlikely at this point.

[sku]

The previous Hooker's House was a Kentucky bourbon. This one is likely LDI since they describe it as from the "bourbon belt" but don't specify that it's from Kentucky. Like the other bourbon, it is finished in Pinot Noir barrels. I believe they are also planning on releasing an LDI rye.

[Shuboy]

I think I was the one who brought up the rumor that the younger Hooker's House was LDI on Sour Mash Manifesto. Later someone else mentioned that that the bourbon was more likely an unused experimental whiskey from one of the Kentucky distilleries since the mashbill was so unusual (and not one of LDI's). The 21 year old however is starting to sound like it is from LDI.

[cowdery]

But who in Kentucky is doing non-standard mashbills and then selling the results in bulk? BT? The mashbill isn't that far off the LDI high-rye bourbon and we also shouldn't be too sure that anything this producer says is accurate.

[sku]

I spoke to Fred Groth, the producer, and he said that the original Hooker's House bourbon was an experimental mashbill from a KY distillery that they decided not to use and sold to him. I did some background research on it, and the story checked out. The label on that version, by the way, did say it was from Kentucky. This version, though, I believe is LDI.

[squire]

sku, are you saying the distillery that made the whisky verified the story?

[tanstaafl2]

sku, are you saying the distillery that made the whisky verified the story?

Fred Groth is the owner of Prohibition Spirits (and HelloCello which produces their lemoncello) which is the bottler of Hooker's House but not the distiller of what's inside.

[squire]

tan I understand what Mr. Groth says . . . sku says the story checked out and I am asking what source other than Mr. Groth verifies the origin and nature of this whisky.

[sku]

The only statements I could get were off the record, so I'm not going to divulge them, but suffice it to say, I was satisfied that the whiskey from that first Hooker's House batch was indeed from a Kentucky distillery.

Edited November 29, 2012 by sku

[cowdery]

I'm sure the actual producer didn't tell why they decided to offload the stuff. Maybe it was from BT's 'small barrels' experiment?

[squire]

Well Chuck, that's better than my parallel universe theory, you know, the other Kentucky in OZ where the Wizard is always creating special one of a kind runs of Bourbon then forgetting where he put them for a couple of decades.

[Lost Pollito]

Finally got to taste this mysterious Bourbon. The nose is much nicer than the actual taste. It has a very perfumey-pinot corn nose, backed up by a decent amount of anise/ wood. Extremely nice color. Close to being opaque. Plenty of corn in that nose, swirlin around with the pinot. The first couple of sips, this was feeling thin and woody. After a bit of time, the taste is expanding a touch on the tongue, and coming off like flabby anise and corn wine. Not bad at all. Perhaps a touch of pepper mixing with the oak on the finish. There is a nice cream corn nose that holds up throughout all of this. All and all, a very nice bourbon. I'm glad it's not a woody mess as some of these older bourbons can be. Anyone else try this yet?

Edited May 1, 2013 by Lost Pollito