Van Winkle in the NY Post

[Rockefeller]

Nice answer Chuck

Wait a second, does Chuck ever actually answer the question about how special it would be as a Christmas present?

If I received a bottle I wouldn't be blown away by the gift itself but I would be appreciative of the amount of time, effort and/or money it took. Someone who has been looking forever for a bottle might feel differently.

[Trey Manthey]

If I received a bottle I wouldn't be blown away by the gift itself but I would be appreciative of the amount of time, effort and/or money it took. Someone who has been looking forever for a bottle might feel differently.

You should just unwrap it with a sneer and scoff, "Overrated, and overpriced. Marta, use this for a pie or something."

[p_elliott]

His point was to not answer that question. The PVW holy grail search has just gotten ridiculous same as the search for BTAC. I would appreciate a bottle if I received it for Christmas but I wouldn't go chase it down for someone. This whole thing is out of hand too many post on here about it. Every year the same thing post after post.

Edited December 4, 2012 by p_elliott

[DPPSmoker]

This too shall pass...or at least become passe, as soon as the celebrity chefs driving so many trends, move on to the next big thing...as in pork belly and soon to come for offal meats :grin: .

Speaking of...I was watching Anthony Bourdain's Layover show last night. He was in Philadelphia and he stopped at a couple of dive bars. Except one of the dive bars had some Pappy. They showed the 15, 20 and 23 year at the bar for about a second or two along with a few other bottles. Just long enough that a knowledgable bourbon drinker would know what it was but not long enough for anyone else to figure it out. Bourdain never stated Pappy or Van Winkle. A few seconds later, he stated to the camera (with the Pappy no longer in sight) that the bar had a good bourbon but he didn't want to share the name of it lest everyone else would want it and it was already too damn hard to find. He then ordered the 20 year. I thought that was a pretty cool move on his part not to mention Pappy or Van Winkle.

[callmeox]

He's mentioned his love for Van Winkle enough on Twitter that those who follow him and are not bourbon experts could guess easily.

[cowdery]

Perfect! Who could possibly be more pretentious and full of himself than Anthony Bourdain?

[squire]

No one immediately comes to mind Chuck, let me think on it awhile.

[sutton]

I'm not sure I subscribe to the theory of a "bubble", as in it will burst someday and prices will decrease to some previously "normal" level. I remember contemplating buying a case of a classed-growth Bordeaux on futures about 10 years ago - never did it because it has reached the "insane" level of around $1200/case with delivery still 18 months away. That same wine in a comparable quality vintage is going for 4X that number today - and there are oceans of wine compared to the most coveted whiskies.

Where is all that demand? Asia mostly, but Russia as well. And I'm sure there are probably those who can remember when Japan was flush and trying to ramp up their cellars quickly.

There will always be those with the money to spend and the desire to build that cellar/bar quickly to entertain/impress. And the ubiquitous info at your fingertips today makes it so much easier to figure out what to buy to impress. Just as I'm sure many lament the best bourbons/rare scotches being quaffed by the nouveau riche with a glass full of ice or a bunker large enough to give cirrhosis to an entire town, so it is that there are many of the best wines that go unopened and over the hill languishing in cellars of collectors.

So it will always be I'm afraid ... in retrospect, a "bubble" would be a nice thing.

[Rockefeller]

I thought that was a pretty cool move on his part not to mention Pappy or Van Winkle.

Probably should have started by NOT tweeting out a picture:

[MyOldKyDram]

Poor, bourbon-less Black Keys.

[Rockefeller]

Probably should have started by NOT tweeting out a picture:[ATTACH=CONFIG]14498[/ATTACH]

Or narrate this show where David Chang and Sean Brock (aka the biggest Van Winkle pimp of all) visit BT and drink with Julian!

http://video.pbs.org/video/2306290860/

[Rockefeller]

By the way, I am a huge HUGE fan of Bourdain so that was not a criticism. Pappy is actually similar to the "hot" restaurant scene where a place gets coverage and it snowballs from there.

[Restaurant man]

Perfect! Who could possibly be more pretentious and full of himself than Anthony Bourdain?

I would NEVER call Bourdain a self inflating worthless jerk to anyone but himself in the flesh. Does anyone know where I can find him?

[Rockefeller]

I'm not sure I subscribe to the theory of a "bubble", as in it will burst someday and prices will decrease to some previously "normal" level. I remember contemplating buying a case of a classed-growth Bordeaux on futures about 10 years ago - never did it because it has reached the "insane" level of around $1200/case with delivery still 18 months away. That same wine in a comparable quality vintage is going for 4X that number today - and there are oceans of wine compared to the most coveted whiskies.

Where is all that demand? Asia mostly, but Russia as well. And I'm sure there are probably those who can remember when Japan was flush and trying to ramp up their cellars quickly.

There will always be those with the money to spend and the desire to build that cellar/bar quickly to entertain/impress. And the ubiquitous info at your fingertips today makes it so much easier to figure out what to buy to impress. Just as I'm sure many lament the best bourbons/rare scotches being quaffed by the nouveau riche with a glass full of ice or a bunker large enough to give cirrhosis to an entire town, so it is that there are many of the best wines that go unopened and over the hill languishing in cellars of collectors.

So it will always be I'm afraid ... in retrospect, a "bubble" would be a nice thing.

There may be a bourbon/whiskey bubble but I don't think Pappy is a bubble at all. The best comparison might be Ferrari. Limited releases, ultra-premium product, with lines of collectors waiting to buy more with no real concern for price. Many people have to buy entry Ferraris just to be put on the waitlist to buy other Ferraris (sound familiar to liquor stores who only give Pappy to their best customers?). There are plenty of luxury bars and wealthy people to keep the Pappy-gravytrain going. As with all bubbles, the "victims" will be the lower middle class - in this case both the lower-mid tier whiskeys and lower-mid tier buyer who will be priced out.

[HighInTheMtns]

There may be a bourbon/whiskey bubble but I don't think Pappy is a bubble at all. The best comparison might be Ferrari. Limited releases, ultra-premium product, with lines of collectors waiting to buy more with no real concern for price. Many people have to buy entry Ferraris just to be put on the waitlist to buy other Ferraris (sound familiar to liquor stores who only give Pappy to their best customers?). There are plenty of luxury bars and wealthy people to keep the Pappy-gravytrain going. As with all bubbles, the "victims" will be the lower middle class - in this case both the lower-mid tier whiskeys and lower-mid tier buyer who will be priced out.

A Ferrari is demonstrably superior to a Toyota in performance and finish, if not fuel mileage and reliability. PVW is not so superior to OWA or to many other similarly priced whiskeys.

[LostBottle]

The Pappy/Ferrari analogy would hold only if Ferrari production switched to a Ford factory and prices went up while quality went down.

[Trey Manthey]

The Pappy/Ferrari analogy would hold only if Ferrari production switched to a Ford factory and prices went up while quality went down.

Also, Ferraris are not required to be aged in new American white oak barrels, so it's not really a fair comparison.

[SWC]

Also, Ferraris are not required to be aged in new American white oak barrels, so it's not really a fair comparison.

The very rare good point. Very true.

[jeffrey r]

A Ferrari is demonstrably superior to a Toyota in performance and finish, if not fuel mileage and reliability. PVW is not so superior to OWA or to many other similarly priced whiskeys.

Playing devil's advocate though, people on SB may know that, but not the masses. There's a definite perception that PVW bourbon is far superior to the rest, whether it is true or not. There's OWA, there's Weller 12, heck, I recently bought several bottles of the Vintage 17 wheater, just sitting there on the shelf for $65. JPS 17/18 still available on plenty of shelves. People are not disinterested in those, but it's nowhere near PVW levels.

PVW is simply in its own universe right now, and people seem to be willing to pay almost anything to get it. I don't see demand going down, so unless supply goes up appreciably, which I doubt, I don't see any bubble with PVW.

[LostBottle]

This blog post seems to sum it up quite nicely.

http://blindtastes.blogspot.com/2012/11/rip-my-pappy-is-dead.html

[Rockefeller]

Can't believe David ripped off my Ferrari analogy

http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2012/12/6/whisky-bubble-were-never-going-back.html

[mosugoji64]

As long as no one starts writing up my precious Wellers or HH BIBs, I'm cool. Still, all this talk of whiskey prices going up in general makes me a little uncomfortable. :skep:

[SMOWK]

PVW is not so superior to OWA or to many other similarly priced whiskeys.

Some would argue that a well picked OWA SB is a lot better than any PVW. I would probably agree some nights of the week.

[B.B. Babington]

a) I like Anthony Bourdain, the recent Anthony is more laid back and not as condescending as the old Anthony. Both Anthony and Andrew Zimmern are willing to make fun of themselves which may them both cool guys in my book.

So what is the 2012 Pappy 20? I remember there was lots of discussion of when the SW would end. The 2012 Pappy is really very great, but ... I'm sipping 2012 next to 2011 and 2007, and the 2012 seems different. Granted, IMO open bottles change, but this new 2012 seems a good bit different on nose and taste and after. I broke out a 2011 WLW and even more confused. Uh, Chuck, what do ya know?

edit to add: I'm knee deep, well waist deep, ... uh well chest deep into the 2012 and 2011. I'll have to revisit these a lot more. Too bad I've only one bottle of the 2012. Though my experience with SW is limited, seems like SW to me. Got to say there may be a lot of media hype, but 2012 is a very good whiskey. There are a lot of similarities with the 2011, but maybe I like the 2012 better?

Edited December 8, 2012 by B.B. Babington

[squire]

Pappy will stay where it is and a few others will ride the price increase wave. Fine with me, keeps the attention away from the part of the shelf where I do my shopping.