Jefferson's Ocean vs Jefferson's Very Small Batch Bourbon

[tanstaafl2]

Before we started our "Whiskies of the World" tasting last night, following a brief deviation to taste Dubbel ales, we had a little blind comparison of Jefferson's Ocean to the basic $30 Jefferson's Very Small Batch Bourbon. Don't know anything for certain about the source or mashbill of either so a bit of a presumption on my part that they are similar. The proof of 82.3 is the same for each.

Other than myself no one knew which was which. Obviously there was a color difference as seen in the picture. No one had any difficulty identifying the Ocean and it was the preferred bourbon in every case. It had a much richer nose with a caramel scent present. The regular was less noticeable in general. Color as noted was a deeper red brown as compared to the regular. The Ocean was generally regarded as smoother and a little sweeter on the tongue at the start with a bit of spice at the back end and a longer finish that ended with a bit of spice. The regular was simply more muted in all regards.

So it was the preferred whiskey by far over the regular Jefferson. Would it be something I would buy at twice the price without the attached history of it? Perhaps not. Would it be worth $1000? I think not! Is it worth 5-6 times the cost of the regular (approximately what I paid)? On taste alone certainly not. Other bourbons tried later that evening that cost less were preferred. One that come to mind was the Old Forester 2012 Birthday Bourbon, which of course is 3 times as old.

But it certainly wasn't terrible. In fact I thought it quite nice. I will happily drink it again on special occasions. I would not buy another but I am not disappointed that I bought this one, if for no other reason than the novelty and the attempt at trying something a bit different was intriguing and something I wanted to taste for myself.

[rhcp658]

I gotta ask, where did you get those sweet glasses?

[dryeager]

This is one of the first positive reviews I have read about the Ocean Aged. I love the concept of the experiment and cant believe how fast it aged at sea. But the price comes into play. Obviously you wont find any on the shelves anywhere but is it worth whatever you might pay for a bottle? You could pick up quite a few bottles of great whiskey but I am sure people say that about dusties all the time.

Thank you for the review!

[tanstaafl2]

I gotta ask, where did you get those sweet glasses?

[tanstaafl2]

This is one of the first positive reviews I have read about the Ocean Aged. I love the concept of the experiment and cant believe how fast it aged at sea. But the price comes into play. Obviously you wont find any on the shelves anywhere but is it worth whatever you might pay for a bottle? You could pick up quite a few bottles of great whiskey but I am sure people say that about dusties all the time.

Thank you for the review!

Edited December 15, 2012 by tanstaafl2

[Trey Manthey]

I think it would be interesting to put the Ocean up against the Jeff Presidential Reserve, a somewhat older whiskey, as it stood well above the regular Jefferson's bourbon. Of course it would be nice to know the source of all the Jefferson's bourbons, to include the Ocean to see if any are from the same source. That would be the best comparison.

[tanstaafl2]

But don't we know the source of these already? JRPS is old S/W. Ocean was aged at sea for a few years. Standard Jefferson's is a rye recipe, while JRPS is wheated. Blind tastings with products that have vastly different prices are always fun, but I think this would be a gimme.

If you know the source please let me know! I would certainly be curious to know.

There are four Jefferson Bourbons in addition to the 10yo Jefferson rye that I am aware of. The regular Jefferson's, Jefferson's Reserve, Jefferson's Presidential Select (which we know is S/W and is the only one I know the source of), and the Ocean.

While I agree the regular, the Reserve and the Ocean are all likely an average rye recipe bourbon I was curious to know if they are all the same recipe from the same distiller. Probably not as it is all sourced bourbon. The Jefferson's Reserve is apparently a NAS blend of bourbon's aged from maybe 12-15 years (it apparently started as a 15 yo bourbon until that source ran out). The regular Jefferson's seems much younger but may be more than 4 years old and may well be a completely different recipe from a different source. The Ocean as we know has been aged about 4 years. I have looked here and elsewhere but can't find much other detail about any of them.

I haven't seen any information on where the Ocean came from. Somebody had to make it! McLain & Kyne certainly didn't. If we knew the source it would be interesting (to me) to compare the Ocean to a bottle of what the source normally makes with that recipe that is a similar age and proof if that were possible.

But I don't know where the Ocean came from so I can't. Makes it hard to say if the cruise made any real difference which I confess is a little annoying to the scientist in me!

[squire]

They won't tell us because we would realize the emperor has no clothes and we wouldn't buy the hype.

If I pay $79.95 for a bottle of Stagg I know precisely what I'm getting, who made it, when, where, the mash bill, the uncut proof, even the warehouse floor and rick no. if I want it, in short, I'm getting what I pay for.

Then an NDP comes along offering me a mystery whisky of unknown age sourced from somebody somewhere (don't ask, it's a secret, you special people understand) with the same level of pricing as Stagg? Please, the real mystery is why I would be gullible enough to buy it. I may as well invest my money in a time share development that's just waiting on construction that will start any day now as soon as the swamp is drained.

[B.B. Babington]

so why does it cost so much more than Kelt?

[tanstaafl2]

They won't tell us because we would realize the emperor has no clothes and we wouldn't buy the hype.

If I pay $79.95 for a bottle of Stagg I know precisely what I'm getting, who made it, when, where, the mash bill, the uncut proof, even the warehouse floor and rick no. if I want it, in short, I'm getting what I pay for.

Then an NDP comes along offering me a mystery whisky of unknown age sourced from somebody somewhere (don't ask, it's a secret, you special people understand) with the same level of pricing as Stagg? Please, the real mystery is why I would be gullible enough to buy it. I may as well invest my money in a time share development that's just waiting on construction that will start any day now as soon as the swamp is drained.

To each his own of course. Some people buy Honda's and some people buy BMW's. I have the Honda and save my money for outrageous booze! And I would be surprised if there wasn't a time in the past that you bought something you didn't know as much about as you would have liked to for more than you wanted to spend just because you wanted to try it out. It is what an enthusiast does.

I would and did knowingly buy the hype in spite of the emperors lack of clothes and I am pretty sure I am not the least bit gullible. I also suspect I am hardly the only one among bourbon enthusiasts to do so. I already knew it probably wasn't going to be worth the price from a taste standpoint alone, even back when it was going to be $90 a bottle rather than twice that or more, especially once the proof began going down. I make no apologies for having bought it because I still wanted to try it for myself and would do it again. Not because the hype has convinced me I am buying something marvelous but because I can afford to and I want to with the full understanding up front of what I am getting. What I wouldn't do is buy a second one.

Now that it has largely been sold out (I would think) it seems like it would be more than reasonable for the producer to share some details about it. I know that is unlikely to happen though. I really would like to compare the Ocean to the same recipe aged four years in a more conventional manner if that were possible. I think the Ocean is better than most 4 yo bourbon I have tried. It is just not 8-10 times better.

[squire]

tan I've never let my enthusiasm get the better of my judgment, well, not counting ex-wives of course.

[HighHorse]

Our "porch group" met up yesterday for a tasting of the Ocean bottle we chipped in on. We made a day of it with bottles on the bar of JPS 18 Barrel Select, Weller 12, Maker's 46 & A special Weller Antique 107. By the time the Ocean had aired out we were pretty well oiled up for the taste test and BBQ to follow. Seven of us .. all capable bourbon enthusiasts .. took part and the comments ranged from "nope" to "very good bourbon". Let me add quickly that the JPS18SB is among the best I have ever tasted and the Ocean, like everything else, wasn't in the ballpark of that one. It didn't stand up as an equal or fair test against the Wellers and the 46 .. a totally different bourbon.

What we did pick up was a decent nose and hearty entry. I felt the overiding flavor was corn .. as in the smell of raw corn. The sweetness came on subsequent tastes and trials as it opened up a bit. The finish was thin with a bit of a recoil and lingering spiciness. The bourbon offered some tastes that some called saltiness and others called spiciness. That it was an experiment, nothing more, and one that resulted in only 250 bottles is all I need to know. It wasn't an experiment that resulted in a great bourbon .. not even a complex or balanced one .. but a worthy experiment that created quite a stir. Based on the extraordinary goodness of that JPS18 ... I and my buddies at the tasting will gladly salute the novel experiment .. and just as quickly get back to that and the other offerings on the bar.

That's just what we did! A good time was had by all.

[dryeager]

Our "porch group" met up yesterday for a tasting of the Ocean bottle we chipped in on. We made a day of it with bottles on the bar of JPS 18 Barrel Select, Weller 12, Maker's 46 & A special Weller Antique 107. By the time the Ocean had aired out we were pretty well oiled up for the taste test and BBQ to follow. Seven of us .. all capable bourbon enthusiasts .. took part and the comments ranged from "nope" to "very good bourbon". Let me add quickly that the JPS18SB is among the best I have ever tasted and the Ocean, like everything else, wasn't in the ballpark of that one. It didn't stand up as an equal or fair test against the Wellers and the 46 .. a totally different bourbon.

What we did pick up was a decent nose and hearty entry. I felt the overiding flavor was corn .. as in the smell of raw corn. The sweetness came on subsequent tastes and trials as it opened up a bit. The finish was thin with a bit of a recoil and lingering spiciness. The bourbon offered some tastes that some called saltiness and others called spiciness. That it was an experiment, nothing more, and one that resulted in only 250 bottles is all I need to know. It wasn't an experiment that resulted in a great bourbon .. not even a complex or balanced one .. but a worthy experiment that created quite a stir. Based on the extraordinary goodness of that JPS18 ... I and my buddies at the tasting will gladly salute the novel experiment .. and just as quickly get back to that and the other offerings on the bar.

That's just what we did! A good time was had by all.

An experiment I wish that had resulted in an amazing whiskey. But that's why they call it an experiment, right? Buffalo trace does their experimentals and not all of them are up to par but its always interesting to see what they come up with. Like your group, I salute them for the valiant effort.

[tanstaafl2]

tan I've never let my enthusiasm get the better of my judgment, well, not counting ex-wives of course.

Then you are a better man than I sir, at least when it comes to booze! :grin:

I don't have any ex-wives but I have more than a few bottles of booze (of all sorts) where my enthusiasm has likely gotten the best of me. But I also have more than a few I regard as gems that I acquired in the same fashion.

To this point I find the potential for reward more than worth the risk and I will happily put the Ocean in that category. It may not be a gem but I am more than happy with the chance to satisfy my itch to know. I would love to have a group to share the experience (and cost) with as in the above posts but unfortunately that has not been a realistic opportunity for me in the past and at least for now, I can comfortably bear the cost.

Edited December 17, 2012 by tanstaafl2

[tanstaafl2]

Our "porch group" met up yesterday for a tasting of the Ocean bottle we chipped in on. We made a day of it with bottles on the bar of JPS 18 Barrel Select, Weller 12, Maker's 46 & A special Weller Antique 107. By the time the Ocean had aired out we were pretty well oiled up for the taste test and BBQ to follow. Seven of us .. all capable bourbon enthusiasts .. took part and the comments ranged from "nope" to "very good bourbon". Let me add quickly that the JPS18SB is among the best I have ever tasted and the Ocean, like everything else, wasn't in the ballpark of that one. It didn't stand up as an equal or fair test against the Wellers and the 46 .. a totally different bourbon.

What we did pick up was a decent nose and hearty entry. I felt the overiding flavor was corn .. as in the smell of raw corn. The sweetness came on subsequent tastes and trials as it opened up a bit. The finish was thin with a bit of a recoil and lingering spiciness. The bourbon offered some tastes that some called saltiness and others called spiciness. That it was an experiment, nothing more, and one that resulted in only 250 bottles is all I need to know. It wasn't an experiment that resulted in a great bourbon .. not even a complex or balanced one .. but a worthy experiment that created quite a stir. Based on the extraordinary goodness of that JPS18 ... I and my buddies at the tasting will gladly salute the novel experiment .. and just as quickly get back to that and the other offerings on the bar.

That's just what we did! A good time was had by all.

Great report! Thanks for the insight. I do think as you note that the JPS18 is not a good comparison to the Ocean except perhaps in terms of cost since the Ocean was originally expected to be a similar proof and cost. I think the Jefferson's Reserve might be a better comparison especially if the Ocean could be produced on a larger scale at a lesser cost (Linie aquavit can do it so why not bourbon?).

Would love to see the experiment tried again and of course if they really wanted to conduct an "experiment" I would love to see the same mashbill aged for the same number of years in the traditional way and then bottled side by side with that same version of the mashbill as the Ocean version 2.0. Perhaps they could do a pairing of 375ml bottlings like Woodford did with their Masters Collection ryes last year. They wouldn't even need to reveal the precious "secret" source if they used the same mashbill for both bottlings.

I am probably even enough of a sucker to buy it again, especially if it were closer to the typical Woodford Master Collection cost of around $100.