MM Proof Change

[smokinjoe]

I hope this is out before Sampler. If so, I am going to conduct a blind tasting among iterations for everyone to participate in. I think it would be interesting to see the results. Maybe, throw in an unknown, too.

[squire]

I was introduced to the 101 by Bill Samuels Jr. at a tasting he hosted for a group of us in the late 70s. I noticed it was gradually being replaced about a decade later in the mid to late 80s. Didn't really pay it much attention, just an observation. Makers was one of those I kept around but didn't really use, my preference being for rye recipe Bourbons.

[MyOldKyDram]

More like Watermark.

[squire]

For the most part I think consumers equate a lack of alcohol burn with smoothness and view that as a sign of quality. That was also a hallmark of Old Fitzgerald which Makers set out to copy (literally) from the beginning. When Makers was sold to a National company (1984 I think) the brand got the advertizing it needed to take off. Makers was and still is good whisky and for the market it seeks I'm surprised they haven't gone to 80 proof before now.

[Josh]

Disappointing but,

1) It's only a decrease of 3% ABV

2) As others have said, they very well could have lowered it to 80°, but they didn't.

3) Their core market isn't going to care or even notice

4) They claim that they are not lowering the age of what is going in. If that's true and stays true, then that's good.

5) I forgot what 5 was going to be.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Josh

[SFS]

Disappointing but,

...

5) I forgot what 5 was going to be.

Is that code for "my brain is getting old"? :grin:

[MauiSon]

I'm looking forward to the price slashing that has always accompanied product changes in the past, at least it has in my area. I'll stock up on a couple bottles of the 'old' product at a >10% price discount, should it occur in this case.

I don't understand why Josh is seeming to treat this as a 'look on the bright side' opportunity. Dilution equals paying the same for less actual product. It's just like ice cream cartons going from 1/2 gal. to some fraction thereof with no price reduction, or candy bars getting lighter and lighter [and still seeing prices go up]. I guess it's all just a ploy to make us healthier, eh?

Edited February 8, 2013 by MauiSon

[Clavius]

Wow, just... wow.

I had some random guy tell me this about a week ago and I thought he was nuts.

[callmeox]

I'm looking forward to the price slashing that has always accompanied product changes in the past, at least it has in my area. I'll stock up on a couple bottles of the 'old' product at a >10% price discount, should it occur in this case.

I don't understand why Josh is seeming to treat this as a 'look on the bright side' opportunity. Dilution equals paying the same for less actual product. It's just like ice cream cartons going from 1/2 gal. to some fraction thereof with no price reduction, or candy bars getting lighter and lighter [and still seeing prices go up]. I guess it's all just a ploy to make us healthier, eh?

If I may be so bold as to answer for Josh:

He doesn't buy it, so he doesn't care what they do to it.

[Kalessin]

I still don't get it. I've said this before: I have never seen a less than plentiful supply of MM in every single liquor store that carries it in Massachusetts and the surrounding states. Ever. I see shelves of it everywhere I travel.

Is it possible that the "shortage" is just marketing BS?

[callmeox]

I still don't get it. I've said this before: I have never seen a less than plentiful supply of MM in every single liquor store that carries it in Massachusetts and the surrounding states. Ever. I see shelves of it everywhere I travel.

Is it possible that the "shortage" is just marketing BS?

I'm a skeptic by nature, but this was my thought as well.

[michaelturtle1]

My local hasn't had 1.75s of Makers in 8 months and it was his best selling bottle... MM is a commodity whiskey and I would believe if someone can't find it they will move onto another brand which I would assume is the reason they are trying to up stocks.. At least they didn't cut the age and tried to keep the same profile unlike WT rye dropping 20 Proof which killed a decent bottle

[ebo]

I still don't get it. I've said this before: I have never seen a less than plentiful supply of MM in every single liquor store that carries it in Massachusetts and the surrounding states. Ever. I see shelves of it everywhere I travel.

Is it possible that the "shortage" is just marketing BS?

[Clavius]

There has been a shortage of at least the 1.75L size here in Central KY.

[MyOldKyDram]

Plenty, and I do mean plenty of 750s to be had, though.

[michaelturtle1]

I know the whiskey monger fairly well at the "best" store around here and for the last year he has complained about MM availability, especially in the 1.75 size. I don't look for it when I am shopping but if it was enough of a problem for him to bring it up out of the blue there must be something to it

[squire]

I'll believe the shortage story when they share the love by lowering the price on the lower proof.

[Josh]

Is that code for "my brain is getting old"? :grin:

Yes! Having a wife and a two year old with a stomach virus in the same week does things to the brain too.

I don't understand why Josh is seeming to treat this as a 'look on the bright side' opportunity. Dilution equals paying the same for less actual product. It's just like ice cream cartons going from 1/2 gal. to some fraction thereof with no price reduction, or candy bars getting lighter and lighter [and still seeing prices go up]. I guess it's all just a ploy to make us healthier, eh?

If I may be so bold as to answer for Josh:

He doesn't buy it, so he doesn't care what they do to it.

I think that was supposed to be #5.

[TheOakMonster]

I still don't get it. I've said this before: I have never seen a less than plentiful supply of MM in every single liquor store that carries it in Massachusetts and the surrounding states. Ever. I see shelves of it everywhere I travel.

Is it possible that the "shortage" is just marketing BS?

Or, they're getting out ahead of the shortage, instead of waiting to they're completely sold out. Just because Makers is plentiful today doesn't mean it will be tommorrow, next week, or next month. MM knows how many barrels they have coming online in the next year and, clearly, it won't meet current demand levels, let alone account for future growth. And if people don't believe Makers is a growing brand, I'll just mention that our store's sales increased over 50% in 2012 over 2011. No other bourbon even came even close to that growth.

[smokinjoe]

Why wasn't one of the options: increase the price until supply/demand reaches an equilibrium?

Exactly, Rock. If one claims to be a "Premium" brand, act like one.

:toast:

[HighHorse]

Agree with Josh .. if it's only a 3% change in ABV .. how much is it going to impact SB's purchasing habits? From the posts so far .. not a huge favorite of big bourbon drinkers anyway. Makers, for me is a choice when .. as someone else once said .. I want a bourbon I don't have to think about. It's just an easy, relaxing bourbon .. and 3% won't change that much at all. I'm also guessing that the vast .. and I mean vast .. majority of purchasers are mixing it with coke or ginger ale anyway so .. what the hell??

[squire]

Wonder about the 84 , you know Beam chose that proof for the Jacob's Well line, must be something numerical about the average number of bottles they can get out of a six year old barrel.

[smokinjoe]

Agree with Josh .. if it's only a 3% change in ABV .. how much is it going to impact SB's purchasing habits? From the posts so far .. not a huge favorite of big bourbon drinkers anyway. Makers, for me is a choice when .. as someone else once said .. I want a bourbon I don't have to think about. It's just an easy, relaxing bourbon .. and 3% won't change that much at all. I'm also guessing that the vast .. and I mean vast .. majority of purchasers are mixing it with coke or ginger ale anyway so .. what the hell??

Agreed, (or hoping) that 3% won't make a big difference. But, "Premium" brands should not do this. My rudimentary math figures that the decreased proof will amount to another 840,000 750ml bottles available world-wide (based on current sales of 1 million 9-liter cases per year = 12,000,000 750's) BTW, if my numbers are FUBAR'd, just shoot me now.

Total increase in availability is nil. No reason to do it. Total revenue increase is what (if that's what this is about?)? $15 million? Peanuts to them. No reason to do it.

I love the whiskey. I hate the move.

[T Comp]

A thread open to the public for reading, that has 49 posts and 1,039 views since 12:10 today, on a bourbon that isn't otherwise mentioned much here says something. I'm going with what VAGentleman says.

JD went from 90 proof to 86 then to 80 and it hasn't hurt their sales. I doubt the sales of MM will be hurt. The regular consumer won't notice or really care.

[kickert]

JD went from 90 proof to 86 then to 80 and it hasn't hurt their sales. I doubt the sales of MM will be hurt. The regular consumer won't notice or really care.

I think you are spot on here and it is exactly what I was thinking. There aren't that many whiskey purists who have MM and JD as their go to whiskey. The people I know who always reach for it will probably agree that it the best part of the change is the less alcohol burn (it will make it smoother!!).