Jewish Whisky Company - 15yr HH Bourbon

[MyOldKyDram]

You all the ones that leave pints of Barton in hotel nightstands?

[squire]

We like to spread the good word in our own way.

[smokinjoe]

You all the ones that leave pints of Barton in hotel nightstands?

Was lucky enough to get my hand up in front of my mouth to keep the coffee from hitting the computer screen! Nice play.

[MyOldKyDram]

Thank goodness for those catlike reflexes of yours!

I think we should call them BiBeons.

"...only to find BiBeons bottle."

[shoshani]

[For brevity, I have left out plenty of confusing bits. For example: grain-based spirits made by Jewish-owned companies, or held and distributed by Jewish-owned distributors or store owners, who retain ownership of grain components or product over Passover, without temporarily selling all of it to a non-Jew for the week, may be considered non-kosher by the observant. Mind-boggling enough to make you want to sit down, have a drink and think of simpler things like vector calculus or probate law.]

Yes. Because the malt and rye components are in contact with water for longer than 18 minutes, they are considered "leavened" (chametz in Hebrew) for purposes of Passover. Jewish law forbids ownership of chametz over the Passover period, so the observant go through a legal fiction, selling all of it, usually through an agent, to non-Jewish ownership for the duration of the holiday. (Here in Chicago, Binny's, which is owned by the Jewish Binstein family, sells theirs through the Chicago Rabbinical Council.)

I'm mentioning this because there's a near-irony here. Up until Heaven Hill bought the Bernheim distillery, most kosher supervision agencies actually forbade HH products, because the Shapira family is Jewish and did not practice this sale. Since 2000-2001 or so, HH products have been permitted. Either enough public shares were sold to no longer qualify HH as being Jewish-owned from a standpoint of Jewish Law, or the Shapira family has adopted the sale practice.

However, while Heaven Hill has been permitted to kosher consumers for the past decade or so, for reasons I cannot fathom several agencies (including the one here in Chicago) have for the past several years forbidden all BT products, including the Van Winkle and Weller lines and anything produced for Age, International. I've asked several times why and cannot get an answer. (As to my own adherence to this particular ban...well...mumble mumble mumble...)

[smokinjoe]

Yes. Because the malt and rye components are in contact with water for longer than 18 minutes, they are considered "leavened" (chametz in Hebrew) for purposes of Passover. Jewish law forbids ownership of chametz over the Passover period, so the observant go through a legal fiction, selling all of it, usually through an agent, to non-Jewish ownership for the duration of the holiday. (Here in Chicago, Binny's, which is owned by the Jewish Binstein family, sells theirs through the Chicago Rabbinical Council.)

I'm mentioning this because there's a near-irony here. Up until Heaven Hill bought the Bernheim distillery, most kosher supervision agencies actually forbade HH products, because the Shapira family is Jewish and did not practice this sale. Since 2000-2001 or so, HH products have been permitted. Either enough public shares were sold to no longer qualify HH as being Jewish-owned from a standpoint of Jewish Law, or the Shapira family has adopted the sale practice.

However, while Heaven Hill has been permitted to kosher consumers for the past decade or so, for reasons I cannot fathom several agencies (including the one here in Chicago) have for the past several years forbidden all BT products, including the Van Winkle and Weller lines and anything produced for Age, International. I've asked several times why and cannot get an answer. (As to my own adherence to this particular ban...well...mumble mumble mumble...)

Fascinating. Thanks for the post.

:toast:

[Gillman]

Very interesting. Everyone looks at whiskey in their own way and can take from it what they wish.

Gary

[Ari]

I am going to the event tomorrow and look forward to tasting that HH bottle. Maybe I'll even get on the list for one. (They can't sell anything at the event, so there is a list.)

[Kalessin]

I am going to the event tomorrow and look forward to tasting that HH bottle. Maybe I'll even get on the list for one. (They can't sell anything at the event, so there is a list.)

Don't leave us hanging.. we're expecting a full report on the experience...

[Lazer]

Yes. Because the malt and rye components are in contact with water for longer than 18 minutes, they are considered "leavened" (chametz in Hebrew) for purposes of Passover. Jewish law forbids ownership of chametz over the Passover period, so the observant go through a legal fiction, selling all of it, usually through an agent, to non-Jewish ownership for the duration of the holiday. (Here in Chicago, Binny's, which is owned by the Jewish Binstein family, sells theirs through the Chicago Rabbinical Council.)

I'm mentioning this because there's a near-irony here. Up until Heaven Hill bought the Bernheim distillery, most kosher supervision agencies actually forbade HH products, because the Shapira family is Jewish and did not practice this sale. Since 2000-2001 or so, HH products have been permitted. Either enough public shares were sold to no longer qualify HH as being Jewish-owned from a standpoint of Jewish Law, or the Shapira family has adopted the sale practice.

However, while Heaven Hill has been permitted to kosher consumers for the past decade or so, for reasons I cannot fathom several agencies (including the one here in Chicago) have for the past several years forbidden all BT products, including the Van Winkle and Weller lines and anything produced for Age, International. I've asked several times why and cannot get an answer. (As to my own adherence to this particular ban...well...mumble mumble mumble...)

The problem is that BT and the other forbidden brands are owned by Sazarac which is Jewish owned, like HH and does not do the sale. (HH does, AFAIK). I emailed the CRC in 2009 at the time of the ban and asked if they were going to work on doing the sale with them. they said they would, but haven't heard anything since.

P.S, You don't have to publicize the ban. If kosher consumers don't know about it, you don't have to go out of your way to tell them.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Lazer

[Ari]

Don't leave us hanging.. we're expecting a full report on the experience...

Sorry for the delayed report. The tasting was wonderful and ranks as one of my favorites. Partially due to Whiskey Fest being the next night, most of the companies that I wanted to see were in attendance and had either the owner or master distiller pouring/entertaining. Those conversations made the event for me. Unlike some of the larger events that I have been to, there were very few lines to wait on and there seemed to be more time to relax and discuss the products with the people who made them. Also, there weren't the usual handful of drunk attendees stumbling around and vomiting. (I don't know if you get that crowd at the larger tasting outside of NY, but we sure do here.) Some of the tasting highlights of the evening were the 15 year HH bottle done for the event, Parkers 7th, a side by side tasting of Four Roses LE SmB 2012 & 2013, AE cask strength, and Brenne Whiskey. I look forward to going again next year!

[squire]

Ari would you share some of those tasting highlights.

[Ari]

I feel foolish reviewing those drinks here where it has already been done by people with more experience and bourbon related knowledge than I have. I will tell you that in my opinion the 15 year HH was a huge, rich, both spicy and caremely (if that is a word), masterpiece of a bourbon. Outside of the Parkers line it is my favorite bourbon from HH. It does not have that overly woody/dry flavor that I get from some of their other products. Regarding the FR LE SmB 12&13, I love them both. I felt that the 12 is bolder and has a nice spice to it, while the 13 is perfectly balanced, wonderfully complex, and a gentler drink. If I had to pick one, it would be the 13. Thankfully I don't have to!

[squire]

Thanks Ari, I'd much rather have straight forward first hand impressions than a long winded review that doesn't tell me much.

[oke&coke]

Clear, short and straight to the point. My kind of notes also. Thanks for the report.

[MyOldKyDram]

I hate these notes as it only makes me want that HH bottle that much more!

[oke&coke]

I hate these notes as it only makes me want that HH bottle that much more!

Yes, and that. PADPADPAD

[Ari]

My bottles arrived!

Edited November 25, 2013 by Ari

[p_elliott]

My bottles arrived!

Nice...And I like the glass s well ....................

Edited November 27, 2013 by p_elliott

[ChainWhip]

Great pictures Ari. Thanks for sharing!

[Ejmharris]

This is one I would very much like to have. It looks great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MacinJosh]

Excellent Ari! Let us know how she tastes!

[Ari]

I am glad that you guys like the pictures!

MacinJosh : The 15 year HH is a huge, rich, both spicy and caremely (if that is a word), masterpiece of a bourbon. Outside of the Parkers line it is my favorite bourbon from HH.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Ari

[squire]

Not bad for one of those huge, homogenized, white bread whisky factories.

[bjhowell]

Are there any of these still available. Have a buddy whose daughter is getting Bat Mitzvahed soon and he's looking for something for a gift for the Rabbi.