Temporary setback in willett family estate program

[ChainWhip]

Are they starting to barrel their own new make?

[Yeti]

Are they starting to barrel their own new make?

I guess they have been for some amount of time. The blog says they've got 6,000 barrels of their own spirit aging in one of the rickhouses.

[theglobalguy]

I guess they have been for some amount of time. The blog says they've got 6,000 barrels of their own spirit aging in one of the rickhouses.

I seem to remember it's been 12-18 months on their own distillate. No chance they could wait that long without the WFE revenue.

[T Comp]

Filled their first barrel on 1/27/12.

[SMOWK]

And for the record, in my experiences, I can't think of any bourbon I thought was "too old", so I'm in agreement with SMOWK there. But that doesn't mean you couldn't pull out a few ounces of that 34 year HH barrel when it was 33 years old, and I wouldn't prefer the 33.

I agree that it could have been better at 33, but I didn't get a chance to taste it. The few times I have had the chance to taste whiskey from the same barrel over a period of years, I always thought that it got better the longer it sat in a barrel.

I have also had bottles of the same whiskey from different barrels at different ages and the older ones didn't always win. But when talking about a single barrel that you like, I think more age is always a good thing. At least from this little guys perspective.

[p_elliott]

Where else are you gonna go? Nobody has a program like Willet where they age whiskey distilled by somebody else. We know that other NDPs do that, but who will sell you a barrel at cask strength? Unfortunately, Willet can afford to make people wait because they offer something nobody else does. Retailers can't keep them on the shelf: there aren't a whole lot of labels that carry that clout.

It's certainly less than ideal to pick a whiskey at 8 years old and not get it until it's 9 or 10; something very well could have changed for the worse during that time, but as things stand, with Willet you take the good with the bad.

Can't you get BP at Four Roses ?

[fricky]

Paul is correct. You can get barrel proof bourbon from Four Roses.

[393foureyedfox]

It's certainly less than ideal to pick a whiskey at 8 years old and not get it until it's 9 or 10; something very well could have changed for the worse during that time

exactly. i would buy an 8 year willett, but i would not buy the 10, even at the same price. Ive had both, and have no interest in another 10. but, to many of you guys, those are both 'young' bourbons. Im with Squire on this one....

as soon as i see a 6,7,8, or maybe even a 9, im gonna grab it. even the GS didnt have anything but the 6 and some 20+ stuff last month. shouldve grabbed the 6, but thought i might be able to find an 8 in town. no luck, only the 4yr rye is here

[nd2005]

exactly. i would buy an 8 year willett, but i would not buy the 10, even at the same price. Ive had both, and have no interest in another 10. but, to many of you guys, those are both 'young' bourbons. Im with Squire on this one....

as soon as i see a 6,7,8, or maybe even a 9, im gonna grab it. even the GS didnt have anything but the 6 and some 20+ stuff last month. shouldve grabbed the 6, but thought i might be able to find an 8 in town. no luck, only the 4yr rye is here

[MyOldKyDram]

Don't listen, fox. All of the 8s are tremendous and and you should definitely grab one or two as soon as you see them!

[393foureyedfox]

Don't listen, fox. All of the 8s are tremendous and and you should definitely grab one or two as soon as you see them!

i have EVERY intention of doing just that!

just out of curiousity....does willett buy distillate, have it shipped to them, then age it in their own barrels on their own site.....or do they go to a distillery, taste barrels, and pick the ones they like and then negotiate a buy?

also, when bottling them (since some guys said they buy from nearly every distillery), they bottle these as single barrels, right? so is one barrel of an 8 likely to be the distillery A, and the next barrel of 8 from distillery B, etc? Or, is it likely that all the 8's released at once came from one distillery and have no more difference between them than any other distillery's own single barrel program?

[HighInTheMtns]

There is no way of knowing which distillery a given Willett barrel came from, unless you selected the barrel.

[nivto]

i have EVERY intention of doing just that!

just out of curiousity....does willett buy distillate, have it shipped to them, then age it in their own barrels on their own site.....or do they go to a distillery, taste barrels, and pick the ones they like and then negotiate a buy?

also, when bottling them (since some guys said they buy from nearly every distillery), they bottle these as single barrels, right? so is one barrel of an 8 likely to be the distillery A, and the next barrel of 8 from distillery B, etc? Or, is it likely that all the 8's released at once came from one distillery and have no more difference between them than any other distillery's own single barrel program?

You just need to look at the barrel #s... they will usually correspond within a series and you can tell that those all came from the same source. For example, the series of barrels with #s in the 700-800 range that are currently 10 yo's. Willett has been selling barrels of that series since they 6 years old several years back. Fantastic whiskey in those barrels and they are all from the same source.

[393foureyedfox]

so should one assume that say, an 8yo willett bought today could be vastly different than an 8 yo bought 6 years ago? different source, taste, mashbill....everything? I kind of assumed they shot for a consistent taste profile, maybe that is not the case?

[smknjoe]

so should one assume that say, an 8yo willett bought today could be vastly different than an 8 yo bought 6 years ago? different source, taste, mashbill....everything? I kind of assumed they shot for a consistent taste profile, maybe that is not the case?

Yes, that's what Jim has been trying to tell you. This is true for most NDPs, but especially Willett FE. That's why everyone here likes to compare notes and barrel numbers when it comes to this label.

[callmeox]

Willett FE bottles are one-offs, mostly single barrels, and from acquired stock.

If you want an NDP product of theirs with the goal of consistency, look for the KBD line.

[nd2005]

so should one assume that say, an 8yo willett bought today could be vastly different than an 8 yo bought 6 years ago? different source, taste, mashbill....everything? I kind of assumed they shot for a consistent taste profile, maybe that is not the case?

Yes. That's why your statement about having not liked one WFE 10 year so not being interested in any of them doesn't make sense.

It's like saying you didn't like EC12 so you don't want to try Weller 12.

[

You just need to look at the barrel #s... they will usually correspond within a series and you can tell that those all came from the same source. For example, the series of barrels with #s in the 700-800 range that are currently 10 yo's. Willett has been selling barrels of that series since they 6 years old several years back. Fantastic whiskey in those barrels and they are all from the same source.

But even then, without knowing more, it's guesswork. While the batches are organized by barrel number, you have no way to know when the batch changes. So barrels 701-787 may be that great wheater you liked...but 788 might be a Heaven Hill rye based mash bill instead.

Edited October 29, 2013 by nd2005

[squire]

Doug when the distillers have surplus whisky to sell that's what the NDPs get. According to Willet they buy from different sources so about the closest thing to a guideline is the collective knowledge of the members here.

[nivto]

so should one assume that say, an 8yo willett bought today could be vastly different than an 8 yo bought 6 years ago? different source, taste, mashbill....everything? I kind of assumed they shot for a consistent taste profile, maybe that is not the case?

All the willett label offers is a program for privately purchasing barrels so that you can put your store's name on the back label and say that it's special. Sometimes the bourbon is special and sometimes it really just isn't.

[HighInTheMtns]

so should one assume that say, an 8yo willett bought today could be vastly different than an 8 yo bought 6 years ago? different source, taste, mashbill....everything? I kind of assumed they shot for a consistent taste profile, maybe that is not the case?

An 8 year Willett bought today could be vastly different from an 8 year Willett also bought today, but from a different store with a different barrel.

[393foureyedfox]

hmmmm. sounds like a total crapshoot on what youre going to get.

if they are just buying existing stock from other distilleries, why would the original distillery sell off their best stuff, isntead of keeping it for their own high end lines? It seems to me, that if i were the original distiller, i would keep the best for my own label and offer the 2nds to the NDP's. I guess this is not the case, as its generally accepted that willett FE is highly regarded. perhaps that explains the high price of it.....that maybe they DO go in and buy some of the original distiller's best stuff, at prices the distiller couldnt turn down.

sorry if i'm not getting it, i just want to understand the NDP process. I guess there is no way to know if the 8 year WFE i find on the shelf is even reminiscent of the awesome one I sampled at the distillery then?

perhaps a 10 would be okay, but still, i havent had any luck liking stuff that ive tried that was 10+ years old (heavy woodiness), particularly a WFE 10 year.

no consistency in taste/quality, huh?

[theglobalguy]

hmmmm. sounds like a total crapshoot on what youre going to get.

if they are just buying existing stock from other distilleries, why would the original distillery sell off their best stuff, isntead of keeping it for their own high end lines? It seems to me, that if i were the original distiller, i would keep the best for my own label and offer the 2nds to the NDP's. I guess this is not the case, as its generally accepted that willett FE is highly regarded. perhaps that explains the high price of it.....that maybe they DO go in and buy some of the original distiller's best stuff, at prices the distiller couldnt turn down.

sorry if i'm not getting it, i just want to understand the NDP process. I guess there is no way to know if the 8 year WFE i find on the shelf is even reminiscent of the awesome one I sampled at the distillery then?

perhaps a 10 would be okay, but still, i havent had any luck liking stuff that ive tried that was 10+ years old (heavy woodiness), particularly a WFE 10 year.

no consistency in taste/quality, huh?

[WAINWRIGHT]

Like so many before me have said,yes there is a great variance of each bottling and they bring a very interesting and unique product to the table and most of what I've had in the past are rather stellar products.I will also note you can not lock down an age grouping and seek out a Willett in any such way.I think the point you are failing to see is that a lot of the majors producing produce very large amounts of these said bourbons to produce small batch or even single barrel bourbons and just because they don't necessarily meet their given profile they are in no way bad.Willett seeks out the unique and have made themselves quite a reputation doing so.I myself have had the opportunity to try many of their offerings over the years and honestly I have never really been disappointed with a single one,they have ranged from good to incredible actually in many cases.I say try what you can through store PS'a via tastings or even other members.... what have you.Find something you like and buy as many as you can,because what you taste today surely won't be the same as what's in the bottle tomorrow.Good Luck in your search and I hope you find a bottling that aligns to your palate perfectly it may take some time,but there is one out there for you.

[nd2005]

hmmmm. sounds like a total crapshoot on what youre going to get.

if they are just buying existing stock from other distilleries, why would the original distillery sell off their best stuff, isntead of keeping it for their own high end lines? It seems to me, that if i were the original distiller, i would keep the best for my own label and offer the 2nds to the NDP's. I guess this is not the case, as its generally accepted that willett FE is highly regarded. perhaps that explains the high price of it.....that maybe they DO go in and buy some of the original distiller's best stuff, at prices the distiller couldnt turn down.

sorry if i'm not getting it, i just want to understand the NDP process.

This is the issue with the NDP's in general.

We can't even tell where they are getting product from, much less what the quality of said product is. The NDP's all negotiate contracts with their suppliers...but in times where Maker's, Buffalo Trace, et al are all announcing shortages and can't even keep their own product on shelves, then obviously the quality/quantity of offerings from NDPs are going to suffer as a result.

I guess there is no way to know if the 8 year WFE i find on the shelf is even reminiscent of the awesome one I sampled at the distillery then?

perhaps a 10 would be okay, but still, i havent had any luck liking stuff that ive tried that was 10+ years old (heavy woodiness), particularly a WFE 10 year.

no consistency in taste/quality, huh?

Not really. Lots of variation from bottle to bottle in my limited experience with them.

But on the flip side, that's part of the fun. Willett has actually become one of my favorite bourbons to order in bars (outside of my home state which doesn't have any Willett...) - because it's a chance to try a barrel proof bourbon with a lot of variety in the flavor profile. It's always something different, and fun to try out. Maybe I'm just not that discriminating, but I've liked a lot of what I've tried from them.

[squire]

if they are just buying existing stock from other distilleries, why would the original distillery sell off their best stuff, isntead of keeping it for their own high end lines?

The short answer is they don't. The warehousemen and master distillers for the majors know exactly which part of each floor in every warehouse matures the best Bourbon and when, like Heaven Hill, you have a million barrels aging under your care it's fairly easy to pick a few hundred from the non-prime areas for quick sale and the purchasers get what they get.

What Willet can do is hold onto barrels for further aging then bottle them at barrel proof. Sometimes they hit a home run, sometimes not, but they've also got to pay bills which occasionally means selling what's on hand.