Packaging

[LostBottle]

I suggest that anyone who has/will place an order with K&L call customer service, ask for David Driscoll, and request he include your packaging. I suggest clarifying that it be tear-free, stain-free and unwrinkled - in other words, exactly how it should be for an expensive bottle of whiskey they are making profit from (especially a $400 Karuizawa). Apparently, it is much easier for some retailers to take forms of paper from customers than it is for them to send them out. What a pompous article.

Edited October 8, 2013 by LostBottle

[tanstaafl2]

I suggest that anyone who has/will place an order with K&L call customer service, ask for David Driscoll, and request he include your packaging. I suggest clarifying that it be tear-free, stain-free and unwrinkled - in other words, exactly how it should be for an expensive bottle of whiskey they are making profit from (especially a $400 Karuizawa). Apparently, it is much easier for some retailers to take forms of paper from customers than it is for them to send them out. What a pompous article.

I confess it didn't really bother me when I ordered several higher end bottles recently. I didn't expect the box/tube but I received them (in a separate box and in good condition!). Was actually a bit more work for me since I had to add them to my luggage and while they don't weigh much I didn't really want to damage them since they made it to me in good shape. That took a bit of doing. The only one that didn't have packaging was the Mortlach Signatory bottle. I guess that was one that he was refering to in the article. To be honest I liked getting the Glenfarclas box but was +/- on the tubes.

Then again, I don't collect. My purpose in buying them was to drink them! Most likely the box/tube will end up holding something else like nuts and bolts if they don't end up in the recycling with the bottles.

I am not surprised other people have expectations attached to the receipt of the packaging. K&L should provide it but it doesn't seem unreasonable to charge a fair extra charge to ship it. They certainly wouldn't be the only web shipper to do so that I have seen.

[squire]

I have no use for packaging myself yet I find Mr. Driscolls dilemma a bit amusing. A customer who can afford $400 for a bottle of hooch has demanding expectations? Welcome to the World of high end retailing Mr. D.

[Yeti]

You can't have it both ways. Part of eating a $200 steak is the restaurant it's served in. Part of drinking a $400 whiskey is the bottle/label/box it is presented in.

[squire]

Have to agree, at some point rightly or wrongly it's the customers who define the packaging.

[GaryT]

If you want that market segment, you need to figure out how to cater to them. Wal Mart doesn't try to offer every product because it doesn't fit in their business model. If going out of your way to package some packaging is going to put a dent in that, maybe you shouldn't offer those (or at least ensure it is very clear to anyone purchasing).

[squire]

Apparently 60 or so of those customers didn't think it necessary to mention they expected the full package.

[theglobalguy]

Imagine i'd be pissed to order a new iPhone online...only to find that Verizon "couldn't be bothered to ship the costly Apple box" and stuffed it in a generic box filled with foam peanuts. I'm all for some logic in place for a $20 bottle, but how many of those come elaborately packed.

[T Comp]

I don't find anything pompous at all. Another of Dave D's acute observations on the current ways of spirits and life, which are dead on. I've also pitched every tube, box or bag for any I've opened (and some before) including a few from the '50s. Now if I ever own a pre-pro, I would possibly keep that.

[ChainWhip]

Labeling everybody who would like a box a "collector" and non-drinker is painting a very broad swath of customers in a derogatory manner. While I'm sure there are some who fit that description, plenty of the buyers will drink those bottles.

[LostBottle]

I don't find anything pompous at all. Another of Dave D's acute observations on the current ways of spirits and life, which are dead on. I've also pitched every tube, box or bag for any I've opened (and some before) including a few from the '50s. Now if I ever own a pre-pro, I would possibly keep that.

Sure it's pompous, it's also disrespectful and passive aggressive. If I pay for the packaging, which is built into the price, I also want the option to keep it or bin it. David needs to suck it up and not have a bad attitude and passive aggressive blog entry about fourty emails from customers who laid out $400+ for his bottles. He is in sales, which is about customer service as much as price - he should also realize that if he keeps biting the hands that feed him, especially high-value customers, he could very well be blogging about adventures as a Walmart checker.

[callmeox]

Someone who looks like Dave Driscoll must have taken lunch money from a member or two here as kids. It is the only logical answer to all of the hand wringing that his blog brings.

I honestly don't see anything pompous in the blog entry either.

[LostBottle]

Labeling everybody who would like a box a "collector" and non-drinker is painting a very broad swath of customers in a derogatory manner. While I'm sure there are some who fit that description, plenty of the buyers will drink those bottles.

Spot on. I present Exhibit A:

Edited October 9, 2013 by LostBottle

[RVTsteve]

I didn't find the post pompous, although unnecessary and bit laughable maybe. I also think some of the reaction is a bit misplaced, or maybe I read the post wrong.

It didn't seem to me that he thinks people shouldn't have packaging or that they shouldn't expect it. He even points out that he gives people what they want when he can. I thought his point was that it's a headache when people complain about a paper box being dented or a label having imperfections especially when it's passed through a third party and then assuming they won't have to pay for an additional shipment they are requesting to be shipped to them. So as a result he wishes packaging were less of an issue and thus he's going to do what he can to avoid that in the future, oh and while he's at it he's going to inform as many of you as he can and tell you why.

Maybe he touched a nerve with some of you who take pride in your packaging or if you've ever contacted him to replace a box. I admit when I pay a lot for a bottle I like to get, maybe even expect, high quality packaging like The Family Cask boxes. But for me I've bought my share of expensive bottles sans packaging or with damaged packaging and felt just as good about it, which is to say a little dirty for paying so much but not sour for missing a paper box.

Edited October 9, 2013 by RVTsteve

[theglobalguy]

I still see a disconnect though.

Whether he agrees or not with folks buying whisky as a collectors item, he's catering to that market. He's making the revenue from those customers, then complaining about their expectations being out of whack with his. He's pushing "you'll never see this again" posts about cherry barrels they managed to find with the hopes of moving product. He's in sales, so i don't see that as a problem.

When what you're pushing is priced based on rarity and perceived value (not a commodity), the service that goes along with that should match. To be frank if i buy a BMW i'm paying a premium. Great car, sure, but the cost of metal to make the hood on that car is not 200% the cost of a Toyota. So when i walk into the dealership and they bitch, moan and whine that i complained about a scratch on the hood when the car was delivered to me....sure seems not to fit the brand.

If KL wants to ship cool, unique, rare items...would serve them to align their practices with the kinds of customers that draws. I live in a state they don't ship to but i scan their blog and site from time to time to see what's out there. Curse of the internet i guess....even folks who could never legally be your customers can be advocates (or not) for your brand.

[MtnDew]

Personally I love the boxes/packaging that comes with my whisk(e)y purchases and am somewhat upset if I find I did not get the "extras" that were supposed to come with a bottle. However, I'm also willing to pay the extra cost required to obtain those items IF a site specifically states that when ordering. I've purchased from a number of etailers who said this and, as always, I checked the box or added into the ordering comments that I wanted all original packaging. They have always been willing to oblige and typically don't even charge more, though I'm willing to pay the extra cost if they do. Whats very annoying are sites who don't say anything about that and then you get "naked" bottles in your order. Ok, for something thats $30 I don't really care, but for a $100+ bottle I want everything thats part of that price. Yes, it's silly but I really enjoy seeing it the way the distiller wanted it to be seen. Sure, there is vanity there, but there is something fun about pulling out a cleverly packaged bottle at one of our whiskey tasting gatherings that you just don't get when it's the naked bottle. The actually dram itself is what really matters but the extras are kinda fun.

All that being said, K&L does not even ship to WA, much to my disappointment, so I can't be all that annoyed at them anyway. However, if they are going to state that they will charge more for original packaging on their site then thats fine, it's all out in the open and clear to the consumer. That same consumer, if annoyed at the policy, can take their business elsewhere. Chances are they would pay more anyway to get the same bottle with the packaging from a local store. And if not, why are they shopping on K&L in the first place?

[Trey Manthey]

I think the underlying root of the problem is what he addressed in the final paragraph. Just get rid of the additional packaging. It shouldn't even be part of the equation, and it just makes whiskey more expensive at the consumer level. It makes sense to package something in a box if there are glasses or a flask or some other tchotchke included, but otherwise it's just a waste of materials. This sort of thing is rampant in the Scotch whiskey realm, and I really hope it doesn't bleed over into the American market. Wild Turkey is probably the worst offender off the top of my head.

[sku]

Wow, I'm shocked that people would get so worked up over packaging. Why? What is it you do with the packaging? I guess I've always seen it as so much crap that just crowds my recycling bin. Most of it is just flimsy cardboard or tin anyway, and the ones that are more elaborate seem all the more wasteful.

[callmeox]

I have a couple of paperboard tubes to hold my pocket change and to help transport said change to the Coinstar. Other than that, I have no use for the packaging.

[MyOldKyDram]

Does packaging effect the resell value? Obviously it does w some collectibles. Can't imagine it does in this case but I've honestly no clue.

[ChainWhip]

It goes both ways - I agree that for most of us that drink our bottles, the packaging is a second thought... But even for me there are some I like to keep: I kept my ORVW23 box/glasses/decanter after finishing it because it's just a nice package - the Karuizawa almost falls into this category (not because of how nice the box is but) because this is likely most whisky-consuming Americans' chance at getting something from this distillery. The NOH masks are stunningly beautiful and I can see why people would want the Karuizawa packages.

Driscoll helped create the hype (although not much fuel is needed for this particular fire) - I don't think it is too much for customers to want the boxes in the first place. If it was damaged and people ask for replacement boxes, what's the big deal if customers are will pay for the shipping / hassle of getting them out? Yeah it's a hassle and KL is mitigating this by not providing packages for their exclusive expressions - great! Expectations set going forward...

Does it really matter when it's all said and done? Probably not but the fact that Driscoll's personal bias against what he views as silly consumer conceit for wanting packages is off putting (though I can sympathize with any retailer having to deal with difficult/*nal customers).

[David D]

Driscoll helped create the hype (although not much fuel is needed for this particular fire) - I don't think it is too much for customers to want the boxes in the first place. If it was damaged and people ask for replacement boxes, what's the big deal if customers are will pay for the shipping / hassle of getting them out? Yeah it's a hassle and KL is mitigating this by not providing packages for their exclusive expressions - great! Expectations set going forward...

.

These are all great responses. Thanks to those of you commenting here in this chain. It's a great help to see all the views of the customer perspective, which is why I write the rather provocative blog posts to begin with -- to garner response and use that response to start a dialogue.

Here are some things we should clear up though: at no point do I ever complain about having to ship people their boxes. My issue is when we ship people their boxes and then that still not being enough. I don't know what else to do at that point. Most often, the cardboard box that surrounds the Lagavulin 16 bottle is dented and torn before it ever gets to K&L. A few hours on the delivery truck is enough to make that happen. Every bottle of Karuizawa that I handled shipped with the original cardboard box folded into the shipper. I went over and folded everyone of them myself. Not every box came to us, however, without a scratch or a dent, so when some customers got their boxes some were upset that the label wasn't perfect or that there was a tear on the side. My overall point, in essence, is that our efforts to provide people with packaging is creating customer service issues surrounding the packaging. People wanted it and we wanted to give it to them. When we started doing it, however, it didn't necessarily solve anything, but rather opened up a can of worms about its condition.

Should we suck it up and do what the customer wants? Absolutely! I wholeheartedly agree with those if you who say K&L is in the high-end retailer business and we need to cater to that demand if we want to be involved with it. That was my own argument to K&L ownership last year. I spent the better part of 2012 in the owner's office, in the shipping department, and in my customer service manager's cubicle, lobbying to create software that would allow us to put "gift boxes" in the item code and allow online customers to decide if they wanted the packaging or not. It took a lot of work and money to make that happen, and now today if you shop online at K&L and order a bottle of Bruichladdich, you'll have the option to add the "gift box" or tin along with it. This happened because the customers wanted it and I worked hard to see that it happened. This isn't the issue, however -- the fact that people want the tin. The issue is that when they get the tin, the tin isn't in perfect shape. Maybe the UPS guy dropped it on the truck, maybe it got crushed under another box, or maybe it was dented before it left. Maybe it never came with a tin when we got it!

This is where it gets even more complicated. Some whiskies now ship in 6-packs with three bottles in a tin and three bottles without a tin. Who gets the tin and who doesn't in this situation? If someone's Karuizawa box got damaged, should I take a box away from someone else's order and leave them without one? There are no extra boxes at K&L, only the ones that are on other bottles of whisky. If we replace one, then it's coming at the expense of someone else. But these are trivial matters, really.

In the end, the point is that, in my opinion, the obsession with packaging is part of what's driving the market (or maybe the market it what's driving the obsession with packaging). We complain about higher prices, but it's all related to this. Whether you want the box or not, no one's looking to pass judgement, but rather call it what it is: some people simply obsess about packaging. The only reason to get upset about that is if you think that's a bad thing. My issue isn't the obsession, but when the obsession becomes a little unreasonable. You wanted the whisky, we got you the whisky. You wanted the box, we got you the box. Beyond that I don't know what else I can do.

The blog is written from a retailer's perspective and it is this retailer's perspective that life would be easier without boxes! I don't think it's pompous to talk about these things or to show a little of your own opinion. We're all people and we have all have different ways of looking at things. That's why this board exists, right?

[Josh]

What's sillier than a blog entry on how hard it is to deal with customers who expect what they bought to arrive at their doorstep in good condition? An entire thread on such a blog entry in an internet forum.

[Trey Manthey]

What's sillier than a blog entry on how hard it is to deal with customers who expect what they bought to arrive at their doorstep in good condition? An entire thread on such a blog entry in an internet forum.

Yeah, but what's sillier than a post on a thread in an internet forum about a blog entry on how hard it is to deal with customers who expect what they bought to arrive at their doorstep in good condition?

A picture of a post on a thread in an internet forum about a blog entry on how hard it is to deal with customers who expect what they bought to arrive at their doorstep in good condition!

[Yeti]

Yeah, but what's sillier than a post on a thread in an internet forum about a blog entry on how hard it is to deal with customers who expect what they bought to arrive at their doorstep in good condition?

A picture of a post on a thread in an internet forum about a blog entry on how hard it is to deal with customers who expect what they bought to arrive at their doorstep in good condition!

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He's doing anything to keep himself occupied so he doesn't think too much about his fantasy football matchup this week.