Jump to content

13th Colony Southern Rye


Merrymash Monk
This topic has been inactive for at least 365 days, and is now closed. Please feel free to start a new thread on the subject! 

Recommended Posts

Perhaps that will be answered during the distillery tour where they could also touch upon how they get full starch conversion with such a low malt content in the mashbill. Of course MGP (and other major distillers) use artificial enzymes to complete the job but why would a micro go that route?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 92
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • squire

    18

  • tanstaafl2

    12

  • TunnelTiger

    10

  • smokinjoe

    9

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Since you asked eight times, was one of your formulations "Why did you decide to use the same rather unusual mash bills as MGP of Indiana for both of your products?"

I wish I were that quick on my feet! :D Didn't ask that, but will next time I speak with him. Vetted the situation with friends last evening, and we agreed that continued skepticism is justly warranted, here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
TunnelTiger

I am assuming the sales rep at the store you visited was a distributor and not a 13th Colony rep since I have read that Ga law requires no producer can visit retail clients without a distributor present. At least that's what it says on one distributor site and you know if it's on the internet it must be true.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I am assuming the sales rep at the store you visited was a distributor and not a 13th Colony rep since I have read that Ga law requires no producer can visit retail clients without a distributor present. At least that's what it says on one distributor site and you know if it's on the internet it must be true.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello. I am the rep that smokinjoe referred to, and I work for Thirteenth Colony Distilleries not our distributor. I wanted to chime in, to hopefully alleviate any confusion out there. I can verify that all of our spirits are hand crafted in-house, and not sourced, nor have they ever been. We do all of our own distillation, barreling, aging, and bottling by hand at our distillery. We have a nearby farm where we grow the corn for our products, and what we cannot produce ourselves, we get from surrounding local farmers.

We got our start in 2008, and began making vodka to support our business while our whiskeys were aging. We launched our first product in April 2009, “Plantation Vodka,” which won a Double Gold medal in the World Spirits Competition. We launched our first aged spirit in September of 2010 “Southern Corn Whiskey.” Our “Southern Rye Whiskey” didn’t hit the market until October 2012. We do not personally grow our Rye, but source it from the Midwest. Our Rye whiskey is aged just under 3 years in new charred American White Oak barrels, and finished with toasted French oak spirals during the last few months of the aging process.

Our most recent aged spirit was released in December of 2013, “Southern Bourbon” which is aged for 4 years in new charred American White Oak barrels. I hope this is helpful.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes James, thank you for posting. Would you feel comfortable posting some pictures of your distilling equipment and some thoughts on the mashbills used?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello. I am the rep that smokinjoe referred to, and I work for Thirteenth Colony Distilleries not our distributor. I wanted to chime in, to hopefully alleviate any confusion out there. I can verify that all of our spirits are hand crafted in-house, and not sourced, nor have they ever been. We do all of our own distillation, barreling, aging, and bottling by hand at our distillery. We have a nearby farm where we grow the corn for our products, and what we cannot produce ourselves, we get from surrounding local farmers.

We got our start in 2008, and began making vodka to support our business while our whiskeys were aging. We launched our first product in April 2009, “Plantation Vodka,” which won a Double Gold medal in the World Spirits Competition. We launched our first aged spirit in September of 2010 “Southern Corn Whiskey.” Our “Southern Rye Whiskey” didn’t hit the market until October 2012. We do not personally grow our Rye, but source it from the Midwest. Our Rye whiskey is aged just under 3 years in new charred American White Oak barrels, and finished with toasted French oak spirals during the last few months of the aging process.

Our most recent aged spirit was released in December of 2013, “Southern Bourbon” which is aged for 4 years in new charred American White Oak barrels. I hope this is helpful.

Thanks James. Happy to have you on the board.

I noted above that at one point your rye was noted to have a mashbill of 95% rye and 5% malt (unless that is a misprint?). It is different from the mashbill of the website which notes 96/4. 95/5 also just happens to be the mashbill of the rye from what is probably the largest provider for NDP spirits in the country, MGPI, so it seems an unfortunate choice at best and you could perhaps see why there might be a bit of skepticism about the source. Can you say anything about this change in mashbill and when/why it occurred? Also doesn't seem like enough malt for efficient conversion of the starch to sugar so I was curious if you supplement with enzymes.

Thanks for the clarification about the barrels as the website also notes the rye is "aged in new charred French oak barrels" which is a bit different from being finished in French oak. I too would be curious to know if the American oak and French oak barrels are standard size or smaller in size.

Is there any reason you don't say these products were distilled by the 13th Colony on the label? I would think you would want to make note of it prominently. Not doing so seems a bit odd to me since you distill everything yourself.

I asked this question some months ago via email but unfortunately I didn't get any response which was a bit disappointing so I hope you can help clarify.

Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello. I am the rep that smokinjoe referred to, and I work for Thirteenth Colony Distilleries not our distributor. I wanted to chime in, to hopefully alleviate any confusion out there. I can verify that all of our spirits are hand crafted in-house, and not sourced, nor have they ever been. We do all of our own distillation, barreling, aging, and bottling by hand at our distillery. We have a nearby farm where we grow the corn for our products, and what we cannot produce ourselves, we get from surrounding local farmers.

We got our start in 2008, and began making vodka to support our business while our whiskeys were aging. We launched our first product in April 2009, “Plantation Vodka,†which won a Double Gold medal in the World Spirits Competition. We launched our first aged spirit in September of 2010 “Southern Corn Whiskey.†Our “Southern Rye Whiskey†didn’t hit the market until October 2012. We do not personally grow our Rye, but source it from the Midwest. Our Rye whiskey is aged just under 3 years in new charred American White Oak barrels, and finished with toasted French oak spirals during the last few months of the aging process.

Our most recent aged spirit was released in December of 2013, “Southern Bourbon†which is aged for 4 years in new charred American White Oak barrels. I hope this is helpful.

Thank you. I too would like to know what size barrels you're using. Also, are these your mash bills?

Rye: 96% Rye, 4% Barley

Bourbon: 70% Corn, 25% Rye, 5% Barley

I ask because those mash bills are unusual and virtually identical to mash bills used by MGP of Indiana. The only difference is that their rye is 95/5 not 96/4. There is nothing wrong with having mash bills like another distillery, they're all pretty close, it just seemed like an odd coincidence since both of those are unusual. The rye recipe in particular is associated with MGP.

You may be the first micro-distillery to release a 4-year-old bourbon. Congratulations. I can think of maybe one other, in Ohio.

Is there an age statement on the label?

Thank you for dropping it and best of luck to Thirteenth Colony.

Edited by cowdery
Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to SB James. It was a pleasure speaking with you the other day, and thank you for participating here. I look forward to learning more about 13th Colony and your product line, current and future. Hopefully, GBS can soon make a trip to Americus to tour your facility.

On the question regarding barrel size, I don't want to speak for James, but I'm pretty sure I noted that he said they are 53 gallon barrels.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Welcome to SB James. It was a pleasure speaking with you the other day, and thank you for participating here. I look forward to learning more about 13th Colony and your product line, current and future. Hopefully, GBS can soon make a trip to Americus to tour your facility.

On the question regarding barrel size, I don't want to speak for James, but I'm pretty sure I noted that he said they are 53 gallon barrels.

Link to post
Share on other sites

James, welcome to SB and thanks for your post and the information. Sounds like a GBS road trip is in order.

Has anyone here tasted the 4 yr bourbon. Would be interested in thoughts and tasting notes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
bad_scientist

This stuff is making me dizzy (the topic, not the whiskey). Okay, I just read two descriptions of Prichard's rye, another possible phony, and one of them explicitly says it's from 95% rye, 5% barley, but distilled by Prichard's. (Also, the company website brags about their oh-so-smart use of small barrels.) Anyway, if this isn't an outright lie or (quite possibly) a miscommunication, maybe other distilleries indeed are using that mashbill. Perhaps they got help from MGPI? Or, perhaps one of the former two possibilities is correct.

http://caskers.com/product/prichards-rye-single-malt-whiskey/

http://prichardsdistillery.com/product/rye-whiskey/

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to suggest that if you have questions with Prichards, you should start a new thread on it. I think it would be good to keep this thread on topic and about 13th Colony. The fellow was nice enough to join and answer some of our questions regarding his company. Let's see if we can learn more, without dragging in another distilleries potential issues.

Link to post
Share on other sites
bad_scientist
I would like to suggest that if you have questions with Prichards, you should start a new thread on it. I think it would be good to keep this thread on topic and about 13th Colony. The fellow was nice enough to join and answer some of our questions regarding his company. Let's see if we can learn more, without dragging in another distilleries potential issues.

I brought it up because it lends credence to the notion that smaller distilleries are using the 95% rye mashbill. Now we have two that claim to do so.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I brought it up because it lends credence to the notion that smaller distilleries are using the 95% rye mashbill. Now we have two that claim to do so.

I agree that it is an interesting subject, and suitable for a separate Thread.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for all of your interest and questions. This is my first time on a discussion board, so be patient with me. Thirteenth Colony is a small family owned company comprised of less than 10 people, so we sometimes get pulled in many different directions. I apologize for any unanswered emails. I will do my best to answer all of your questions to the best of my knowledge, and what I don’t know I will try to find out. I’ll be heading down to the distillery at the end of the week, and will try to get some answers for your distillation specific questions (as I am not our distiller.) I’ve answered a few of the questions I have definite answers for below, if I missed your question… stay tuned as I will try to have more answers for them next week when I return.

Distillery Pictures: If you check out our Facebook page, you will find some pictures of the distillery and our equipment. (check the tagged pictures in 2013). I will also try to take a few pictures while I am down at the distillery for posting here.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/13th-Colony-Distilleries-LLC/209830939043566?sk=timeline

Barrel Size: We use full sized 53 gallon barrels to age our whiskeys.

Rye Mash Bill: The correct ratio is 96% Rye & 4% Malted Barley. The 95% referred to in the discussion must have been a typo that wasn’t caught in time.

Why did we choose this Rye Mash Bill ratio?: I’ll have to do some digging to find out, but I can say that I haven’t tasted another Rye whiskey that tastes like ours on the market (working in this industry, you get a lot of opportunities to try other's products.) It has a pretty unique flavor, that holds its own in a cocktail… but if you’re anything like me, you drink it neat.

Thanks for your patience, I’ll be back with more information next week.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This stuff is making me dizzy (the topic, not the whiskey). Okay, I just read two descriptions of Prichard's rye, another possible phony, and one of them explicitly says it's from 95% rye, 5% barley, but distilled by Prichard's. (Also, the company website brags about their oh-so-smart use of small barrels.) Anyway, if this isn't an outright lie or (quite possibly) a miscommunication, maybe other distilleries indeed are using that mashbill. Perhaps they got help from MGPI? Or, perhaps one of the former two possibilities is correct.

http://caskers.com/product/prichards-rye-single-malt-whiskey/

http://prichardsdistillery.com/product/rye-whiskey/

Prichard's both distills and sources. The rye is MGP. See the label, which includes the phrase "Distilled in Indiana." https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=14086001000420

Link to post
Share on other sites
bad_scientist
Prichard's both distills and sources. The rye is MGP. See the label, which includes the phrase "Distilled in Indiana." https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=14086001000420

I'm not allowed to reply but I were allowed, I'd point out that their own distillery entry claims they distill it. Naughty distillery, flat out lying.

Back on topic - (edited) maybe 13th Colony uses malted rye? 4% barley is just such a small amount.

Edited by bad_scientist
Link to post
Share on other sites

I asked Larry Ebersold, who was master distiller at Lawrenceburg under Seagram's and developed the 95% rye recipe, about the small amount of malt. He said that's enough. Why that's enough is because they use supplemental enzymes. They are not using malted rye. I know this because Ebersold told me the original recipe was 100% rye, 5% of which was malted, but the accountants decided malted rye was too expensive.

Perhaps because of the success of MGP's rye, micro-distilleries have duplicated that mash bill. There's nothing wrong with that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly I think we make a bit too much about mash bills at times, it's what the distillery does with it that counts. Give two master bakers exactly the same ingredients and they will produce different loaves of bread. Even if a micro chooses to use the MGP recipe they won't make the same whisky.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Frankly I think we make a bit too much about mash bills at times, it's what the distillery does with it that counts. Give two master bakers exactly the same ingredients and they will produce different loaves of bread. Even if a micro chooses to use the MGP recipe they won't make the same whisky.

Sir, mashbill is everything! I mean, are you claiming that there wouldn't be a difference between a 95% Rye and a 96% Rye?!?!?! (wait . . . for me tat is probably true :lol:)

I definitely look forward to a GBS road trip down to see the 13th Colony operation. That always leads to great questions. Glad to have James on the board and contributing too!

Link to post
Share on other sites
TunnelTiger

Well Jame's participation has got my couriosity up so I will be getting a bottle this week.

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.