Suntory Time for Beam?

[Wryguy]

One interesting development would be if Beam stopped selling product to NDPs, as the Japanese focus on opening the pipeline to Asia, diverting what little Beam offered to NDPs to greater inventory in their own home country. I know that Beam doesn't admit to the practice, but I've definitely had a BMH NAS that was distinctly Beamy, and a 6 year WFE that was also Beam make IMO. Also, will this purchase lead to the end of the ill advised 'Olds' advertising campaign that was rolled out a while ago? My greatest hope is that they put out an over proof OGD, at like 14 years and 114 proof. Unlikely given current market pressures on supply, but a man can dream...

[squire]

I think buying Beam will make Suntory a major player in the Irish and Canadian whisky industries as well, so, smart move.

[Wryguy]

That's right squire, they own Alberta Distillers too. I hope that they completely shut out Whistlepig, the disingenuous shills, and even LSB and Masterson's and Jefferson's as well, and set up that 100% rye under the Alberta name at much better prices. That would be amazing.

[theglobalguy]

I think buying Beam will make Suntory a major player in the Irish and Canadian whisky industries as well, so, smart move.

I understand bourbon has a following in Asia, any idea on CDN whiskey? I can't remember seeing much beyond Jim Beam Black and JD in China...but didn't pay attention in Japan.

[squire]

A man can dream and there sure is a lot of Old Grand Dad stock currently aging so reinstating the 8 year age statement wouldn't be much of a stretch.

And yes, that cheezy 'olds' campaign is decided un-Japanese in it's approach. Reintroducing the Olds in their original mashbill/yeast version is certainly within the purview of a company looking to the future.

[Wryguy]

A man can dream and there sure is a lot of Old Grand Dad stock currently aging so reinstating the 8 year age statement wouldn't be much of a stretch.

And yes, that cheezy 'olds' campaign is decided un-Japanese in it's approach. Reintroducing the Olds in their original mashbill/yeast version is certainly within the purview of a company looking to the future.

It would amazing for Old Overholt to recover some of its former glory. Used to enjoy the pour as recently as 3 years ago, but it has just gotten worse and worse. I'm actually starting to get hyped about this, but I also have a propensity to put the cart before the horse. There are still many variables and months before anything like this could get churning.

[Memphis]

It's business these days. I will say however, the Japanese are deeply concerned with preserving intrinsic quality where it is found. A good sign for fans of the juice.

[squire]

I got more faith in Tokyo than Deerfield.

[Wryguy]

I understand bourbon has a following in Asia, any idea on CDN whiskey? I can't remember seeing much beyond Jim Beam Black and JD in China...but didn't pay attention in Japan.

I'm pretty sure that the Asians are excited about most things American, from blue jeans to bourbon, Bruce Springsteen to Madonna. Check out this article: http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/articles/5-american-things-japan-surprisingly-obsessed

As for consumption of Canadian whiskey in Asia, I found an article with following stats from 2011, from CBC news: "Canada exports 70 per cent of the whisky it produces, about 60 per cent of it to the U.S., and the rest to Europe and Asia, Westcott said."

[squire]

I'm not surprised, the light, sophisticated Canadian style is closer to the Japanese style than the World's other blended whiskies.

[Memphis]

Not really sure what that smoosh article has to do with bourbon? I believe Japan has interest because of the laws that are intact that has to do with the purity of bourbon. Canadian whiskey can have flavoring, e-150, or any other additives and it's still "whisky". Bourbon, no, that's what's appealing. Just MHO

[Wryguy]

Not really sure what that smoosh article has to do with bourbon? I believe Japan has interest because of the laws that are intact that has to do with the purity of bourbon. Canadian whiskey can have flavoring, e-150, or any other additives and it's still "whisky". Bourbon, no, that's what's appealing. Just MHO

The article was meant to illustrate the unusual heights that the Japanese will go to when it comes to all things American. Like paying 25% over list for a spirits company. You're right to say the deal is about the bourbon, but there are many facets to this deal, and the Japanese also have plenty of drunks who just want a cheap bottle, and aficionados with a love of varied styles whether it be Scotch, Canadian or American. And squire astutely points out the similarly sophisticated palates on some Canadian and Japanese whiskies. The Japanese often cut their whiskey with water and serve it over ice in a highball, so their approach is different from ours, and may manifest in surprising ways, like the voluntary elimination of e-150 and other flavoring agents from all their Canadian products, regardless of laws. Remember they are the new bosses and changes are definitely coming, almost definitely for the better IMO. And there is no law against flavoring whiskey in America, it just has to be labelled differently. Red Stag is an American product by Beam, and will prove an interesting bell weather on what Suntory will keep and what it will change. Not to mention that there are plenty of other spirits involved in this transaction other than whiskey.

[Memphis]

^^Well said, and I agree

[dementedavenger]

The article was meant to illustrate the unusual heights that the Japanese will go to when it comes to all things American. Like paying 25% over list for a spirits company.

[callmeox]

Suntory and Beam already had distribution agreements in place for their products. I'm not sure how this changes any of that.

[dementedavenger]

Suntory and Beam already had distribution agreements in place for their products. I'm not sure how this changes any of that.

[callmeox]

Let me re-phrase. I read that Beam and Suntory already had agreements for distributing each others products in their domestic markets.

We understand that Suntory will be running the show once the deal is done. Not sure what else you are trying to say.

[Grain Belt]

There are interesting comments in this thread about business by SB members with much more knowledge about international business than myself. The perspective I keep thinking about is that of consumer. That is something I know well. I am tired of the ultra-premium hunt. (Pappy, Hirsch, etc.) As a consumer I want high quality, affordable, and ACCESSABLE bourbon and rye. If the product meets these three merits, I will buy it regardless where the ownership group resides. I like many Beam products and hope they continue to offer what they have and maybe there will be new cash flow to innovate and offer new products down the line.

[dementedavenger]

Let me re-phrase. I read that Beam and Suntory already had agreements for distributing each others products in their domestic markets.

We understand that Suntory will be running the show once the deal is done. Not sure what else you are trying to say.

[p_elliott]

My My were going to have a Beam white shortage in the USA my is heart broken. If more people don't jump to conclusions long before anything thing happens I'm going to have a stroke. I looked the sky is not falling.

Edited January 16, 2014 by p_elliott

[MyOldKyDram]

At a Drs appt now, but after that I'm off to load up on Beam White, maybe some 7 yr.

[Grain Belt]

A lot of folks on this board are no wallflowers when it comes to the vocal dislike of Beam White or taking tongue in cheek shots at it. I believe it is a good pour. Certainly not great or mindblowing, but consistant, accessable and widespread. I just bought a handle two days ago for $20 at a mid year sale at my local. Is an $18 handle of EWB better? Yes but I still like going back to the old standard that is at every bar and every reasonably stocked home cabinet.

Many even don't care for JBB. I really like when a host at a party gives me a pour of Black. They might not have the biggest range of bourbon knowledge but they cared enough to know a bourbon guy is coming over and they cared enough to go up the shelf a little bit.

I hope the new sale of Beam, Makers etc. goes well for the new owners and most improtantly I hope it goes well for the consumer.

[mosugoji64]

I think it will be interesting to see if this has any effect on the US market. There may be interest in different products overseas that Suntory will pursue, but we may not see them here. This could just result in expanded export offerings. Whatever the case, I'm confident we won't see any decline in product quality here. They have a reputation to uphold.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Wryguy]

Quite frankly, that article is garbage bordering on insulting and the 25% premium that Suntory paid has nothing to do with some sort of fascination with all things American (an exaggerated claim made about Japanese people)

O Demented one, I've had literally hundreds of Japanese students and also been to Japan three times and the relationship of that country with America is unlike that of any other country. I threw that example out there to illustrate the extremity that SOME people in Japan go to in pursuit of some things American, but sure there a lot of old Japanese people who loathe America, haven't forgotten the war, and want to remilitarize. There are those young people who love their own culture and seek to preserve traditions as well. Hell, there are those who love romantic European cities like Paris and France, or moorish castles in the South of Spain, who collect wines and spirits from around the world, who are still xenophobic when it comes to the actual people of those countries. But they love American whiskey, just like they love Scotch and Irish (see Nikka Coffey Grain, made in stills shipped from Ireland). They wouldn't have paid the premium if it were only for the Canadian or Scottish side of Beam's businesses. It has to do with how they love the hottest whiskey in the world, bourbon, and the Beam name which carries weight worldwide as an American brand. My statements are sound, and not meant to insult anyone or to make a gross generalization about Japanese people. Chill man.

[cowdery]

A couple of thoughts.

Although Scott alluded to it, the largely unreported part of this story is the role of Bill Ackman, whose hedge fund owns about 12 percent of Beam's stock, which is huge. It was Ackman who ultimately forced the break-up of Fortune Brands that turned Beam into a pure-play distilled spirits company. He has been in the background for years, powerfully influencing the company's decisions. God bless him, in the sense that he knew the asset was undervalued and forced company leadership to maximize its value for shareholders, but he was never interested in building a long term winner in the distilled spirits category, plus he desperately needed a big win to offset some bad investments in J. C. Penny and Herbalife. Now that's done and Beam-Suntory is better off without him, as they can stick to their knitting without fear that their biggest shareholder will decide a liquidation is in his best interest.

Exactly what this new combination will mean is all speculation at this point. We're still a few months away from the deal even being consummated. I'm still a little hazy on what part of Suntory is public. If Beam is now going to be private, there may be less transparency than there has been, which is unfortunate. It has always been much easier to get certain kinds of information out of Beam, as compared to Heaven Hill and Sazerac, which are private. Sales figures in particular. Brown-Forman is actually a little of both, in that it is technically public, but the Brown family still owns enough stock of the right class to maintain effective control. Perhaps that's how Suntory will evolve.

On the theory that every company is for sale if the price is right, I wonder a lot about the future of Heaven Hill and Sazerac. Both companies must get acquisition feelers constantly and I'm sure some of the numbers they're seeing are head-turning. I know the powers-that-be at Heaven Hill aren't looking to cash-out anytime soon. I don't know the Sazerac ownership as well, but the same would appear to be true there. Still, in both cases there has to be an offer that would be impossible to refuse.

As for the regrettable xenophobia being expressed in some forums, it occurs to me that many of the posters, while clearly xenophobes, may not actually be whiskey drinkers. That would explain some of the ignorance, not that I'm suggesting whiskey drinkers might not also be poorly informed. Haters got to hate and will travel great distances to do it. Too bad, though.