Journeyman Distillery Visit

[MyOldKyDram]

No, it ain't right at all. And sadly looks like there isn't a damned thing to do about it save for putting the offenders on a naughty list and simply not supporting them. Makes me ill that they're allowed to get away with stuff like this.

[sutton]

If they know that little, aren't they a bit dangerous? If they have no idea how to distill properly to produce whiskey, how do you know they aren't getting high methanol/high ethyl carbamate and whatever else in there? Is there any requirement to submit your distillate to third-party testing?

I'm a distiller because I have a DSP number and I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night? Labeling fiascos are one thing, but this is really over the top.

[HighInTheMtns]

Well, Oscar, most people these days would blame that on their Autocorrect but I don't have Autocorrect. The malfunction is all in my head.

And as for Journeyman's proof off the still, I believe everything Oliver..., er, Oscar tells me.

I do know a couple of micros who have told the TTB what their distillation proof is and the TTB has told them to label their product as rye whiskey anyway. Don't know of it happening with bourbon but I know it has happened with rye.

It's funny that they do this with the small producers and it took Chuck Cowdery to stop them from doing the opposite with Jack Daniel's.

If they know that little, aren't they a bit dangerous? If they have no idea how to distill properly to produce whiskey, how do you know they aren't getting high methanol/high ethyl carbamate and whatever else in there? Is there any requirement to submit your distillate to third-party testing?

I'm a distiller because I have a DSP number and I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night? Labeling fiascos are one thing, but this is really over the top.

Distilling alcohol is not that complicated. I'm sure there is no safety issue... Even the idea of moonshine being unsafe is very very very played up.

[squire]

The lack of experience is showing. High proof distillate placed in barrel for a short aging time has a fairly predictable result. It's not enough to say it's a craft product and I meant to do that.

[cowdery]

While it is not difficult to make safe cuts when distilling, people get it wrong. Maybe they're stupid, maybe they're sloppy, maybe they have no sense of smell, maybe they just don't care. Moonshiners traditionally keep too much of the heads because it puts more product in the tank, and they don't care. A master distiller at a major producer told me that he tested several micro-distiller 'white whiskey' products and found unsafe levels of methanol. They weren't high enough to call the authorities but they were higher than they should be. He's worried somebody will have an accident and somebody will get hurt. In fact, he thinks it's inevitable.

[sutton]

While it is not difficult to make safe cuts when distilling, people get it wrong. Maybe they're stupid, maybe they're sloppy, maybe they have no sense of smell, maybe they just don't care. Moonshiners traditionally keep too much of the heads because it puts more product in the tank, and they don't care. A master distiller at a major producer told me that he tested several micro-distiller 'white whiskey' products and found unsafe levels of methanol. They weren't high enough to call the authorities but they were higher than they should be. He's worried somebody will have an accident and somebody will get hurt. In fact, he thinks it's inevitable.

The Bottled-in-Bond Act undone - a new generation of 'rectifiers', but this time out of ignorance rather than intentional adulteration.

[OscarV]

The Bottled-in-Bond Act undone - a new generation of 'rectifiers', but this time out of ignorance rather than intentional adulteration.

I suppose but like I said earlier I find it hard to believe that someone who invests himself in such an operation doesn't know whiskey.

[MyOldKyDram]

So they know, they just don't give two sh*ts then? I'm not sure which is better.

[OscarV]

So they know, they just don't give two sh*ts then? I'm not sure which is better.

Hear hear!!

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[squire]

The only thing we can be sure of is they're in it for the money.

[HighHorse]

How about those folks who give it glowing reviews? Makes you wonder if they're real people at all. Sorta like those hotel and restaurant reviews on Google. Here again, a decent retailer would warn you. $50 for less than bottom shelf quality liquor? Crazy.

[sutton]

If the worst thing that happens to you is overpaying, count yourself lucky and lesson learned.

I think that those craft distillers that are trying to do this right have a vested interest in getting control of their industry segment - their return on investment is long-term and it would be a shame to see them painted with the same brush as those that don't appear to know what they are doing - they may not get their $50/bottle for real whiskey when it is ready and time to charge for it if others have poisoned the well before they get there. Perhaps some certification body they all support that essentially serves as a "Good Housekeeping" seal of approval.

[squire]

On the face of it that sounds like a good idea Mark but I doubt it would work any better than their ethics committee.

[Bluestar]

Just to clear up the record, Journeyman distills under 160 for their whiskeys, as required by law. Their rye was their first whiskey, with the most experience now behind it, and was interesting at the start, and remains a good product IMO. I agree, the bourbon may only be a passible effort, but it is one of their newer products, so they may have room to improve. The owner, Bill Welter, is serious about producing good whiskey, and while making money obviously it a goal for all businesses, it is not meant to be at the expense of the product IMO. But small batch production is always expensive to do, and so it is charged for. The goal is to continue to improve and make better whiskey, I am sure. (Disclosure: I am a small batch distiller producing competing products).

[bad_scientist]

Just to clear up the record, Journeyman distills under 160 for their whiskeys, as required by law. Their rye was their first whiskey, with the most experience now behind it, and was interesting at the start, and remains a good product IMO. I agree, the bourbon may only be a passible effort, but it is one of their newer products, so they may have room to improve. The owner, Bill Welter, is serious about producing good whiskey, and while making money obviously it a goal for all businesses, it is not meant to be at the expense of the product IMO. But small batch production is always expensive to do, and so it is charged for. The goal is to continue to improve and make better whiskey, I am sure. (Disclosure: I am a small batch distiller producing competing products).

[Phil T]

Just to clear up the record, Journeyman distills under 160 for their whiskeys, as required by law. Their rye was their first whiskey, with the most experience now behind it, and was interesting at the start, and remains a good product IMO. I agree, the bourbon may only be a passible effort, but it is one of their newer products, so they may have room to improve. The owner, Bill Welter, is serious about producing good whiskey, and while making money obviously it a goal for all businesses, it is not meant to be at the expense of the product IMO. But small batch production is always expensive to do, and so it is charged for. The goal is to continue to improve and make better whiskey, I am sure. (Disclosure: I am a small batch distiller producing competing products).

I love this. He tells us the what is what, and just kind of who he is. There are lots of insiders here, who tell us their name and what they do. Man up and do the same. Otherwise, its just blah blah blah

[cowdery]

Lighten up, Phil. People have always had handles on this site. He wasn't talking about his own product, he was talking about someone else's. I give him points for not calling attention to himself and making it about him. I knew who it was too as soon as I saw the location, but big deal?

[Phil T]

Lighten up, Phil. People have always had handles on this site. He wasn't talking about his own product, he was talking about someone else's. I give him points for not calling attention to himself and making it about him. I knew who it was too as soon as I saw the location, but big deal?

Ok. Gotcha Chuck. Point taken. But it does crack me up that you're telling me to lighten up

Edited July 13, 2014 by Phil T

[cowdery]

Well if I'm saying lighten up, then you really probably should lighten up.

[willmohawk5]

Having some of their bourbon now. Just awful. Has a plastic taste to it. Can't figure it out. There are way more better buys for what they sell this stuff for.