Dannabis Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I was reading an article the quoted the legal definition of bourbon and I noticed that it lacks an age requirement. After which I proceeded to check that and also not find an minimum age requirement for bourbon.I guess I am spoilt by straight bourbon at atleast 2 years in oak.What young bourbons are there on the market?Does anyone here prefer/enjoy some of those?What is the youngest a bourbon can be?I mean, so white dog that sits in oak for two weeks is bourbon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.B. Babington Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 see: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?idno=27;region=DIV1;type=boolean;c=ecfr;cc=ecfr;sid=0189b502138b015b4bd9553f84c12f8e;q1=5.22;rgn1=Section;op2=and;rgn2=Section;op3=and;rgn3=Section;rgn=div8;view=text;node=27%3A1.0.1.1.3.3.25.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in WashDC Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Under Federal regs (27 CFR sec. 5.22((1)(i)), whisky can be called "bourbon whisky" if is ". . . whisky produced at not exceeding 160° proof from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent corn . . . and stored at not more than 125° proof in charred new oak containers . . ." The 2-year minimum age requirement under subsection (iii) applies only if one wants to use the term "straight". [Also, it has to meet the definition of "whisky" in 27 CFR 5.22(.] So, it appears that, if the proof, percent corn, and new charred oak container requirements are met, the whisky can be called "bourbon whisky" as long as it is "stored" in the new charred barrels. This "charred new oak containers" requirement coupled with the meaning of the words "containers" and "stored" could be fun to play with. Suppose I build a new oak container that holds 4,000 gallons. Suppose I char it. I guess I only get to fill it once (to meet the "new" requirement). Also "stored" probably doesn't include a continuous flow. So, if I fill it, bung it, and then immediately pull the bung and dump it, I guess I've met the minimum requirements to call it "bourbon whisky" but I can't call it "straight" because it's only minutes to hours old. [ASIDE: This is one reason this old faht likes the word "Straight" and likes age statements better - so I don't get stuff that's either too young or too old. I also like to see "bourbon" so I know the container was "new" and "charred". ) If by "white dog" you mean "corn whisky" as defined in section 5.22((1)(iii), the whisky can only be called "corn whisky" if its mash is at least 80% corn AND if it is stored in non-oak containers OR in used or UNcharred containers so it can't be called bourbon, too. If it is put into new charred containers, it can't be called "corn whisky". At least that's what I THINK the regs say. This is not a formal legal opinion, and you shouldn't rely upon it. I wrote it, and I sure wouldn't.:grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I believe Smooth Ambler Yearling is 2 to 2 1/2 years old. Rock Town Arkansas Young Bourbon, 8 months.Cleveland Bourbon, days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Cleveland Bourbon, days*shudder*.....please, please Cleveland, quite giving people reasons to ridicule you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighInTheMtns Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 A spirit distilled from bourbon mash becomes bourbon as soon as it is in a new charred oak barrel. You can't pump whiskey through the barrel, you have to fill it and dump it, and then you can't use it to make bourbon again, so that wouldn't be very cost effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiSon Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 However, the barrels can be used to make High Times whiskey, Mellow Corn and many other barrel-finished products. I'm sure the barrels wouldn't be wasted. Speculation - We like to believe that the first use of bourbon barrels creates the primary product, but it may be so only in a temporal sense. The second, third or even subsequent use of those barrels may create higher-valued products, in some cases. So, is it possible a barrel may have greater value after having been used to make bourbon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryT Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I believe Smooth Ambler Yearling is 2 to 2 1/2 years old. Rock Town Arkansas Young Bourbon, 8 months. Cleveland Bourbon, days Someone had one at the gazebo I thought that was under 2 yrs old, but . . . this was the gazebo so I may have been drinking This photo from a reviewer shows a 18 mo age statement though. While expensive to use the barrel once for a short duration, you've got more "product" with something that young (which helps bear the burden of the barrel, compared to a barrel that holds for 8 years and has lost more to evaporation). Plus you're cashflow is improved from realizing revenue more quickly (from the product as well as selling the used cask). In fact, I wonder if a Scotch company might pay more for casks where spirit spent less than 2 or 3 years in it (might it have more to give?), although that might make the peak younger which is hard in Scotch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Someone had one at the gazebo I thought that was under 2 yrs old, but . . . this was the gazebo so I may have been drinking This photo from a reviewer shows a 18 mo age statement though. [ATTACH=CONFIG]18534[/ATTACH] I have a Yearling that is 2-1/2 years old. Unfortunately, the more I try it, the lower my opinion of it. I have a bottle of Cleveland which is just slightly better...Old Crow is immensely better than both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I should think the Scotch makers would be very attuned to how long a barrel had served it's first use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtide291020 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 This is the "Fifteen/Fifteen" rule: As long as you put the new under-125-proof bourbon whiskey in the new charred-oak bucket for fifteen seconds or carry it for fifteen feet, you've got bourbon. - Jimmy Russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannabis Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 That 15/15 rule made me laugh Redtide.HarryinDC, by white dog, I only mean distilled bourbon mash of the proper specifications that has yet to touch new charred oak.I am curious however to try some good corn whiskey. I will try to make it a point to sample the next open bottle of young'un bourbon, if I come across one.I guess it does not make much sense to make young whiskey. This train of thought and thread has helped me to better appreciate the importance of straight bourbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryT Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I guess it does not make much sense to make young whiskey. Unless you can recover the costs, which some folks have figured out. I still ponder how Hudson Baby Bourbon is successful charging what amounts to more than BTAC at retail for a young (under 4 yrs) corn whiskey (oh, sorry - it is technically bourbon despite being 100% corn). Of course, I'm assuming they are successful because I see it distributed fairly widely. Only bottle I can recall with the words "Aged Under" on the label No thanks - I'll take Mellow Corn for less than 20% the cost and be a happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I can't help but think some store clerks that recommend these hyped products haven't actually tried them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sku Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I am curious however to try some good corn whiskey. Good luck with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannabis Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Sku, is good corn whiskey rare?I keep hearing of this Mellow Corn, I'd like to grab a bottle. I wonder where it is distributed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjbeggs Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Yellow Rose Outlaw Bourbon (100 Corn Mash) is aged six months (and tastes every bit of it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootsOnTheGround Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Sku, is good corn whiskey rare?I keep hearing of this Mellow Corn, I'd like to grab a bottle. I wonder where it is distributed.. He's just being a smart ass. Never tried any Balcones whiskies? They do an excellent job with that there corn malt. Besides, many mash bills used by a lot of the favorites are pretty high in corn (70 - 80%) anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I don't know how widely distributed (I can think of a half dozen States) and certainly worth a try. Sort of a classic of the style and bargain priced for a BIB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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