Balcones - the End?

[Harry in WashDC]

Thanks, BW. Any hard info is always appreciated. So, I shouldn't look for a 6 yr old rye from you all? Well, then, guess I'll just have to keep your True Blue 100 around.:cool:

[Balcones Winston]

Thanks, BW. Any hard info is always appreciated. So, I shouldn't look for a 6 yr old rye from you all? Well, then, guess I'll just have to keep your True Blue 100 around.:cool:

Jared and I were actually discussing this recently. I may have exaggerated in my last post we wouldn't have to change everything, but we'd have to use an extremely neutral/spent barrel to prevent over-extraction during an extended period of aging (relative to what we do now). So, I think most straight whiskies (which require aging in new charred cask) would be out of the question. But a rye whisky, much less than 6 years, is certainly on our wish list to produce.

[squire]

Thanks for dropping by Winston, I understand your posting is restricted for the time being, it's good to know production is humming along unimpaired. From this thread and posts in other threads I'm sure you realize the membership at large here has only best wishes for Balcones continued success.

In my cheeky post above I was thinking (but forgot to add) "Straight Rye with an Indiana Heritage".

[Balcones Winston]

In my cheeky post above I was thinking (but forgot to add) "Straight Rye with an Indiana Heritage".

Lol ok I get it now. Yeah that's not going to happen, you have my word

[Quantum]

Lol ok I get it now. Yeah that's not going to happen, you have my word

What about a nice Indiana rye, finished in Rumble casks? "Rumbled Rye" for say, $75 a bottle?

Come on, you know you want to try it...

[squire]

Nah, it's gotta be genuine Texas pecan wood barrels.

[Balcones Winston]

Nah, it's gotta be genuine Texas pecan wood barrels.

Speaking of... we just got in 3 barrels made out of Texas Live Oak... likely the first and only of their kind. Still trying to decide what to fill in them

[Balcones Winston]

What about a nice Indiana rye, finished in Rumble casks? "Rumbled Rye" for say, $75 a bottle?

Come on, you know you want to try it...

Certainly not a bad idea but we wouldn't release any sourced whiskies under the Balcones label. If anything it would be a side project for Jared and I

[squire]

Why not indeed, MGP Rye is good enough for Dickel. As for the rest let me think, hmm, okay, I'll compromise, Live Oak with some toasted pecan staves tossed in. Oh, and the staves hafta be toasted over Mesquite coals.

[garbanzobean]

My initial impression of this news was that it rang eerily similar to the case of Kevin Brittingham (a name that isn't likely to mean much of anything around here; feel free to google around if interested), which isn't to say that I am siding with Mr. Tate, simply that there are some initial parallels. Most judges weren't born yesterday, and hopefully this TRO functions as an effective means for all sides to cool off and work something out. I hope things are resolved amicably soonest so we can all focus on what matters: whiskey.

Cheers,

Eric

P.S. - I think President Lincoln had some great advice that we should all consider (myself included) before things get too heated in this thread:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

[squire]

I wonder who told Lincoln that.

[garbanzobean]

I wonder who told Lincoln that.

Was it you? Boy would my cheeks be red . . .

[squire]

Probably a wise old judge from the days when Lincoln was a young Circuit riding lawyer.

[kickert]

Isn't imagery fun? Let's add a little balance. An icon? Not yet and not really. He is no more an icon than Pee Wee Herman, and now facing a similar resolution. Established craft distillers lining up to bring him aboard? I'm sure most craft distillers, who are equally proud and in control of their own unique ideas just can't wait to have a control freak who has to run the show, join them.

His talent is not as "well established" as his sycophants would shout to the heavens, as evidenced by the very divided reviews of his products by not only the "experts" but also net comments at large. Novel, yes but hardly established with such a checkered record. Great hype, but divided results does not "well established" make. The problem is way, way, way beyond a "few ill advised comments".

I urge all who care enough to go beyond their own prejudices (the "pros") to actually spend some real time with at least the first half of the amazing court findings and filings which outline in great detail just what happened. It is beyond shocking. Remember: knowing that the other party will surely object, no company would ever allege in such detail yet, such claims that they were not completely ready to defend, to every comma and crossed "t". If anything, these filings are far, far more damaging than already discussed. Tate's role was alleged in excruciating detail insofar as his position and duties which he agreed to, yet almost immediately and completely ignored.

With a resume like that, his budding career is in tremendous jeopardy. There are no exits. He has to spend some serious mirror time. Let's hope he's hit bottom and joins CDA (craft distillers anonymous) in time to save himself. As for me I'm sticking with my odds, but...

I have been away for a few days, so sorry for pulling from a slightly dated post, but I couldn't skip over this.

You have to place this discussion of Chip's skills in the context of craft distilling. Look at the proliferation of new micro-distilleries popping up. And from that number, how many have a reputation that extends beyond their home state? 10? Maybe 15? Now ask yourself, how many people in the world have actual distilling experience? Now how many people have distilling experience of more than 1-2 years? How many craft distillers can you name? Chip has years of experiance, and has his name attached to one of the few micro-distilleries that has widespread recognition. He's not an icon like Jim Rutledge is an icon, but he has a resume that would be very attractive to a very large number of these micros that have opened up in the last 3-4 years.

Jimbo, you are asking people to look past their prejudices and I think many of us can see potential issues on Chip's side of this Balcones equation. But, your assessment of him as a distiller is disingenuous as best. Say what you will about craft distilling as a category, but you have to admit that within that world, Chip is in the upper echelon.

[TomH]

It's been interesting watching this situation and speculation from the sidelines, but since Chip's side has formerly labeled this as a power grab by the investors...until such time that the impossible happens and they kiss and make up....no Balcones product will be purchased or consumed by me or at any of my parties....I know this doesn't make a bit of difference to Balcones, but it just makes me feel a little bit better.....here's hoping Chip won't have to wait 3 years to produce quality whiskey again (OTHO, I couldn't blame him for taking advantage of a 3 year paid vacation <G>)

[smokinjoe]

Just an observation, and probably it means nothing, but there seems to have been a fair amount of, "You know what I heard Chip Tate say...?" coming from somewhere around there...:skep:

[Barrel_Proof]

Here's a new story re Balcones: http://www.wacotrib.com/news/business/waco-whisky-distiller-fires-back-in-ongoing-balcones-dispute/article_aa7dd794-c095-53eb-b3dc-155cad40ea91.html

[squire]

The fight's over the "very soul of Texas whisky"? My, that's impressive.

[Harry in WashDC]

Hmpf. The news report says: (1) Hearing postponed for three weeks. Rats. I was primed for more yelling. (2) The financing was finalized in spite of the public dispute. I thought it was in jeopardy.

And this report appeared shortly after I found a bottle of Rumble in the basement which I didn't know I had. Coincidence? I think not.:skep:

[Paddy]

I find it interesting that it's the Oklahomans' fault. "The very soul of Texas whisky" vs the bad guys from up north.

I guess the old SWC rivalry is still going strong.

[Josh]

Oh I'm sure they'll still be yelling about it all over the Internet as they have been since the TRO was issued.

Hmpf. The news report says: (1) Hearing postponed for three weeks. Rats. I was primed for more yelling. (2) The financing was finalized in spite of the public dispute. I thought it was in jeopardy.

And this report appeared shortly after I found a bottle of Rumble in the basement which I didn't know I had. Coincidence? I think not.:skep:

[TomH]

Just an observation, and probably it means nothing, but there seems to have been a fair amount of, "You know what I heard Chip Tate say...?" coming from somewhere around there...:skep:

Joe, my previous comments were based totally upon the written article about the court continuance and Chip's responses reported as part of the court documents.

[smokinjoe]

Joe, my previous comments were based totally upon the written article about the court continuance and Chip's responses reported as part of the court documents.

Same here, Tom. It's only coincidence that my post appeared after yours. My comment is just me verbalizing what I've been thinking since this story appeared. I'm sorry if it appeared as if it were in response to yours.

:toast:

[smokinjoe]

Joe, my previous comments were based totally upon the written article about the court continuance and Chip's responses reported as part of the court documents.

Same here, Tom. It's only coincidence that my post appeared after yours. My comment is just me verbalizing what I've been thinking since this story appeared. I'm sorry if it appeared as if it were in response to yours.

:toast:

Edited September 18, 2014 by smokinjoe
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[Infidel]

I didn't read all 13 pages of the thread, just found out about it late last night.

A$$h0l3s with money. If you have heard that used in context... will just leave it at that.

I'll make it clear I am not threatening anyone. There are fine folks that have raped the people of this country while working for firms such as Goldman Sachs, then were heavily rewarded when it started to clear. Guillotines on street corners around Wall st. They wouldn't need to be functional - they could even be welded shut - but they would serve a function. As suggestions to those who through their actions have cost the lives of thousands of Americans - no they may not have done the final act of murder but they did put thousands in a position where they died early deaths because of stress, unemployment, homelessness... you get the picture. They have killed more Americans than all acts of terrorism put together.

What do you think would have happened if someone from out of town tried pulling this in Kentucky a hundred years ago? Even today?

I read the first page, and went back a couple in this thread. I don't remember comments by anyone who has stirred corn mash by hand to create the products sold by Balcones.

The website for Balcones still has claims of stills they made themselves by hand... I don't remember anyone making a comment in this thread that crawled inside the copper, with a TIG torch and ran beads while suffering from the extreme heat and inhaling the fumes. Or concentrated exposure to hexavalent chromium from crawling inside stainless tanks to weld a ferrule. Surface preparation with hydrofluoric acid and exposure associated with it?

I remember seeing the fresh live oak curing in stacks up on the roof of the warehouse just after they began to occupy it several years ago. That is a hell of a space, but hardly as new as the Tribune article makes it sound.

Chip has been polite enough to me, he tolerated me as much as he needed to - but he's no angel. But who is? Homicidal Goldman Sachs angels?

I don't have first hand knowledge of the specifics but am certainly willing to rant. Yes, Jared is a good guy and has put in many years there, I haven's spoken with him recently but sort of know what he would have to say. I have another friend who used to work for them and left for reasons I won't bring up.

f'n aholes w/ money

Edited September 18, 2014 by Infidel