Things Tour Guides say: Willet

[Josh]

I went on the Willet tour over KBF weekend. I didn't ask the tour guide any questions related to what they distilled and what they didn't because I already knew the answer to that and she was a little scary, frankly. Anyhoo, here are some of the things that she said that stuck with me from the tour:

-Willet's warehouses are small, about half the size of a normal one IIRC.

-They have 8 warehouses.

-Only about 1 1/2 of those warehouses are full.

-All their warehouses are on site. They don't own any at any other locations.

-Rowan's Creek and Noah's Mill are made from three different mashbills

-Johnny Drum & Old Bardstown are high rye bourbons

-"The Chinese" love Johnny Drum

The most surprising statements to me were about the warehouses. I had always thought that Willet aged a lot of their brands themselves, or at least the WFEs, but if those statements are accurate, then it would seem that they don't do a whole lot of that or at least they don't anymore. Those statements left me wondering if all they have in those warehouses is what they have distilled themselves.

As for the mashbill information, it left me wondering if RC & NM are custom-distilled for Willet or if they're blending HH, B-F & Beam distillate all together for those. Also left me wondering if JD & OB are custom-distilled or Old Forester or OGD mashbills.

Anyway, thought y'all might want to know.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Josh

[dcbt]

Typical Willet, the main takeaway and common theme throughout that post seemed to be, "It left me wondering..."

[Richnimrod]

As to things tour guides say.....

My experience is that whenever tour guides begin a sentence with their his/her mouth open making sounds....

They're making shit up!

Another way of saying this was made clear to me when the wife and I were in Alaska. A 'river guide' told me that to determine when a guide was lying; listen for the words; "No Shit, there I was....." That would ALWAYS be followed by a lie.

[smokinjoe]

Josh, did mention if those were the "Good" Chinese, or the. "Bad" Chinese?

Made my first trip to Willett myself, during KBF. I was surprised at the number of rickhouses in general, and now more surprised to hear most are apparently empty. But, as I sit hear and ponder these, I don't know why I'm surprised on either.... Ah, Lazy Sundays...

[nd2005]

Just a theory...

When I was at Willett this summer, the tour guide said they had filled 1.5 warehouses with their own distillate so far.

Maybe this got transposed in a game of telephone?

Who knows...

[Old Dusty]

Just a theory...

When I was at Willett this summer, the tour guide said they had filled 1.5 warehouses with their own distillate so far.

Maybe this got transposed in a game of telephone?

Who knows...

[squire]

Willett warehouses have been empty for a lot of years now. Their practice has been to buy already aged whisky on the spot market (which means regular stuff, not custom made) then bottle it.

[PaulO]

So then, it's somebody else's terroir?

[squire]

Yeah, Kentucky appellation.

[Josh]

Just a theory...

When I was at Willett this summer, the tour guide said they had filled 1.5 warehouses with their own distillate so far.

Maybe this got transposed in a game of telephone?

Who knows...

[squire]

Probably a combination of ongoing agreement and spot market purchases. The original Black Maple Hill was spot market but I expect the current NAS version is not.

[Old Dusty]

Probably a combination of ongoing agreement and spot market purchases. The original Black Maple Hill was spot market but I expect the current NAS version is not.

[Old Dusty]

Willett warehouses have been empty for a lot of years now. Their practice has been to buy already aged whisky on the spot market (which means regular stuff, not custom made) then bottle it.

[squire]

The current NAS version in the squat bottles is from Stein in Oregon. No relation to KBD at all.

[squire]

Using your Hubble telescope from Mississippi to view inside the rickhouses . . . .

[callmeox]

Josh, did mention if those were the "Good" Chinese, or the. "Bad" Chinese?

Made my first trip to Willett myself, during KBF. I was surprised at the number of rickhouses in general, and now more surprised to hear most are apparently empty. But, as I sit hear and ponder these, I don't know why I'm surprised on either.... Ah, Lazy Sundays...

Did you knock on any of the rickhouses to see if they were full?

[Old Dusty]

Don't need one. While still a student one our member's son had a Summer job at Willett and reported back about the empty warehouses. There are some posts about that in our archives and if you have difficulty finding them shoot me a pm. Drew also monitors our posts here and if he wants to respond I welcome his comments.

Squire, you know the fallacy of that statement is that the information you are relying on is only as good as time it was delivered. How many summers ago was the summer job you are referring to? Don't need to find it if it was more than three years ago since KBD started distilling their own in Jan of 2012.

[smokinjoe]

Did you knock on any of the rickhouses to see if they were full?

I saw no reason to, when these things can apparently be determined from home...

[squire]

Ok guys, have your fun. OD, what 's under discussion is whether Willett is aging large stocks of sourced whisky until it meets their specifications. I maintain they're not because they didn't in the past and none of you have offered anything to disprove my statement. Drew could easily set the record straight if he so chose.

[Old Dusty]

Ok guys, have your fun. OD, what 's under discussion is whether Willett is aging large stocks of sourced whisky until it meets their specifications. I maintain they're not because they didn't in the past and none of you have offered anything to disprove my statement. Drew could easily set the record straight if he so chose.

No offense, but what is under discussion is goofy things the tour guides say. I chimed in because I found your factual statement ("Willett wharehouses have been empty for a lot of years now") intriguing since they have had an active barrel selection program for many years that only recently slowed to a halt but has now apparently picked up again. I wanted to know how you "knew" that fact and you answered my question.

The discussion you want to have is perhaps more appropriate for a different thread but can only be a futile exercise without a participant with firsthand knowledge-something neither you nor I have. The tour goes to one Rickhouse (and it appeared really full) so even those civilians who have been on site (like me on multiple occasions) can't prove or disprove what you are saying.

[squire]

Sure, new thread then.

[fricky]

Ok guys, have your fun. OD, what 's under discussion is whether Willett is aging large stocks of sourced whisky until it meets their specifications. I maintain they're not because they didn't in the past and none of you have offered anything to disprove my statement. Drew could easily set the record straight if he so chose.

Why would Drew take the time to explain anything on SB after all of the negative comments and criticism over the past years? At one time, Drew would visit with us in the gazebo. Unlike some visitors, he brought a bottle. I have not seen him there in years.

[ModernThirst]

They have aged other producers' distillate in their warehouses for years. I've been there and seen them. Whiskey Advocate mentioned it a couple years ago: "Perhaps most valuable of all, there are eight well-weathered, traditional rick-style warehouses at the property. These currently hold aging bourbon destined for the various labels and brands produced by the Kentucky Bourbon Distillers bottling operation. Slowly but surely they will be filled with new barrels distilled onsite by Kentucky’s newest…old distillery." http://whiskyadvocate.com/whisky/2012/03/30/willetts-making-whiskey-again/

[ModernThirst]

And from Chuck's blog back in 2013: "KBD buys bourbon and rye from distillers, aging some in its own warehouses. It then sells some of that whiskey to its customers, also bottling it for them, and the rest it sells as its own brands, including Old Bardstown, the original Willett Distillery's flagship bourbon." http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-willetts-are-back.html

[cowdery]

I think the missing link here is that most of the brands KBD bottles, for itself and others, are very small. If a barrel of whiskey sits in their warehouse for six months before they bottle it, then they have partially aged it. I doubt they are now or ever have bought new make and done the full aging cycle there. Until they started to distill, their business was acquiring whiskey and sending it out the door in bottles as quickly as possible. I know when Julian had Commonwealth he had one functioning warehouse and did some aging, but there was never a lot of whiskey in it. It was never close to full. So that, I think, is the explanation. Most of the aging KBD has done has been incidental. If they have the whiskey and it's in a barrel, then it's in a warehouse and aging, but there has never been a great deal of it and none of it remains in that state for very long. If they buy surplus from someone, they will take the whole lot but maybe they don't have customers for it right away. While they're selling it, it ages.

In many cases, the customer acquires the whiskey, it comes to KBD, and they bottle it, but it doesn't age there at all. It may already have been dumped and comes to them in totes. So, yes, KBD is a big operation. Their bottling operation makes them too big to be a micro-distillery, at least by some definitions. But that's a bottling business. Aging whiskey made elsewhere has never been their business.

Now that they are distilling, however, it's a different story. They will start to fill up those warehouses quickly. They are building new warehouses and they are fairly small. The old ones don't appear to be any different from the older ones across the street at Heaven Hill. All of this makes me wonder about the condition of those original warehouses.

By the way, the beer still they're using is the same one Thompson Willett used. It was made in Mexico.