Flavored Bourbon ?

[squire]

I have no objection to a flavored or finished Bourbon, are we not doing much the same thing with cocktails such as Manhattan, Sazerac or old fashioned? Those three are certainly popular among the Bourbon set.

Having said that I prefer to start with a good base Bourbon and mix in my own flavorings rather than buy a whole bottle of someone else's formula.

[ramblinman]

to the original poster, I'd guess the beam maple would baste the heck out of a ham.

As far as flavored whiskey in general goes, the only one I've had that wasn't too bad was leopold bros peach whiskey. Syrupy sweet by itself, but if you treat it like a mostly finished cocktail and toss in a bit of dry vermouth or club soda it's actually not too bad and pretty darn refreshing.

[Paddy]

Recently, I was offered a taste of Fireball at a tailgate. I didn't find it offensive in any way, but couldn't help but think that I could just drink VOB BIB with an actual fireball in my mouth and get a better result for less money.

[Tucker]

Fireball is trouble...

http://www.wfsb.com/story/28062566/norwich-bus-driver-drank-fireball-night-before-morning-route

[jvd99]

Yuck - no thanks - never tried and never will

[B.B. Babington]

I'm agin it. Ain't nuf room on this here shelf pardner, it's either you or me. Flavored moonshines and whiskeys takin' over this here town and come sundown we'll see who's lying cork down on the floor.

[bjhowell]

William Wolf Pecan Bourbon is actually damn tasty. Bourbon blended with distilled pecan essence and maple. Like a pecan pie in a bottle!

[Grain Belt]

Curious about folks sensitivities. I had a No.14 Bourbon in Vermont - young bourbon with a touch of Vermont maple syrup added to the mix. A flavored whiskey and I loved it and if it was available locally it would be a regular on my bar. Tried the Knob Creek Maple and found the flavor to be too artificial. Tried the Hudson Maple Rye and liked it enough to buy more recently. The Hudson is different than any of the other "flavored" alternatives in that it is aged in a cask that was used to age maple syrup. I am going to guess that most will dismiss the difference. If a distillery chooses to "finish" a scotch in a sherry cask, no one blinks an eye. Or a "finished" bourbon in a cognac cask, no issues. If a distillery chooses to "finish" a rye in a maple syrup cask, does that cross the line? It's merely a different flavor than sherry or cognac after all? No?

This all assumes that all is equal and all distilleries are taking a quality bourbon and "finishing" it with various "natural" additives. Many of them are majority GNS bases then may have straight whiskey and flavors added. So to me, as much as I love HH's Evan Williams bourbon, their flavored EW line doesn't have a drop of bourbon in it and strays from the barreled spirit I love

[fishnbowljoe]

I prefer bourbon flavored bourbon myself. :grin:

[LakeJ]

I prefer bourbon flavored bourbon myself. :grin:

Here here I second that.

[MTNBourbon]

I've tried a few, pretty tasty, go down too easily, got to be very careful, but most likely will not buy again.

[Master Distiller]

If its flavored its not bourbon, and shouldnt be allowed to be called bourbon by law. Flavor is the only thing that makes Tennessee whiskey, Tennessee whiskey. The maple flavoring from the hard sugar maple charcoal filtering. Thats the ONLY difference between Bourbon and Tennessee Whiskey. I commend Four Roses not wanting anything to do with flavored bourbon.

[smokinjoe]

If its flavored its not bourbon, and shouldnt be allowed to be called bourbon by law. Flavor is the only thing that makes Tennessee whiskey, Tennessee whiskey. The maple flavoring from the hard sugar maple charcoal filtering. Thats the ONLY difference between Bourbon and Tennessee Whiskey. I commend Four Roses not wanting anything to do with flavored bourbon.

The Lincoln County Process is an extraction process from the distillate, rather than an addition process to the distillate.

[squire]

The Lincoln County Process is an extraction process from the distillate, rather than an addition process to the distillate.

Quite so. The age old moonshiners trick of running new make whisky over charcoal to clean it up evolved by logical extension to the far more elaborate Lincoln Country process. The charcoal is inert though, as all sugars or anything that could be called flavoring is burned away while the charcoal is being made. In modern times the charcoal still cleans up the new make but it's primary effect is to jump start the aging process.

[TunnelTiger]

The Lincoln County Process is an extraction process from the distillate, rather than an addition process to the distillate.

And there is no flavor added to Tennessee whiskey, totally different subjects.

[Kartofel]

Have Dickel or Daniel's released any whiskey that hasn't gone through the process? I think it would be an interesting experiment to see if there's a big difference in taste between the two.

[squire]

No Robert they haven't, not in the past 50 years at least. Tennessee voted Prohibition in 1910 so both distilleries closed. Cascade/Dickel moved elsewhere and was made intermittently by others until returning to Tennessee in 1958. During the 40 year Exodus Cascade/Dickel was usually made by the Lincoln Country process but I believe some standard rye recipe Bourbon was sold under the Cascade label. That wasn't using the Dickel mashbill though, rather standard make used by the distiller of the time. Cascade was an old, well established brand but I don't think the name George Dickel appeared on the label until after 1958.

So other than the current Rye anything labled Dickel was made using the Lincoln Country process.

[Kartofel]

Thanks again for the information, Squire. I'll just keep dreaming about that being able to do that taste test some day, then. In the meantime, the no. 12 will keep me happy!

[TheNovaMan]

The Lincoln County Process is an extraction process from the distillate, rather than an addition process to the distillate.

I think it's both. Allow me to explain, starting with the charcoal.

Charcoal

Jack Daniels' method of producing charcoal is pretty well-documented: they make a pile of sugar maple, set it on fire, and control the burn with water. The fact that they control the burn with water indicates to me they want it to get hot, but not too hot. What happens if it gets too hot? You'd lose all the volatile organic compounds (VOCs), so I think it's reasonable to infer that they want some VOCs in their charcoal.

Charcoal vs Activated Carbon

Activated carbon or activated charcoal is produced from charcoal, but with further processing to eliminate anything that isn't carbon and to produce the desired pore characteristics, which determine what compounds the activated carbon will tend to absorb. Although JD's charcoal is not activated carbon, it is likely it contains some activated carbon; the use of water to control the burn may produce some active carbon via steam activation.

Lincoln County Process

JD makes a big filter of their charcoal, which contains some VOCs as well as some activated carbon, and passes distillate through it. The activated carbon in the charcoal removes some of the congeners from the distillate, and the ethanol in the distillate extracts some of the VOCs from the charcoal.

[smokinjoe]

I think it's both. Allow me to explain, starting with the charcoal.

Charcoal

Jack Daniels' method of producing charcoal is pretty well-documented: they make a pile of sugar maple, set it on fire, and control the burn with water. The fact that they control the burn with water indicates to me they want it to get hot, but not too hot. What happens if it gets too hot? You'd lose all the volatile organic compounds (VOCs), so I think it's reasonable to infer that they want some VOCs in their charcoal.

Charcoal vs Activated Carbon

Activated carbon or activated charcoal is produced from charcoal, but with further processing to eliminate anything that isn't carbon and to produce the desired pore characteristics, which determine what compounds the activated carbon will tend to absorb. Although JD's charcoal is not activated carbon, it is likely it contains some activated carbon; the use of water to control the burn may produce some active carbon via steam activation.

Lincoln County Process

JD makes a big filter of their charcoal, which contains some VOCs as well as some activated carbon, and passes distillate through it. The activated carbon in the charcoal removes some of the congeners from the distillate, and the ethanol in the distillate extracts some of the VOCs from the charcoal.

Yeah, some black s#!+ would seemingly get into the distillate. .

It also has been discussed here that the LCP could act to "jump start" the wood aging process to a degree.

[squire]

. . . . The fact that they control the burn with water indicates to me they want it to get hot, but not too hot. What happens if it gets too hot? . . . .

If it gets too hot all you have a pile of useless ashes.

[Master Distiller]

Its very simple, they want it to smolder. If it get too hot it will turn to ash and there would be no charcoal. Hard sugar maple charcoal and activated carbon charcoal are two different things. I make my sugar maple charcoal in a metal can with a lid and put into a fire ring, build a fire around it and by the time the fire burns out(about 3 hours) the charcoal is perfectly black all the way through. I then crush it to about a quarter inch size, rinse it with clean water, and its ready to filter white dog bourbon for Tennessee whiskey. Activated carbon is only used for vodka because it strips out all the flavors. Maple charcoal imparts more of a maple flavor than it removes anything. It does neutralize some off flavors but it imparts more of a maple flavor. It smooths the whiskey just enough to provide a year or two head start on the aging process.

[smokinjoe]

Been thinking about this since your last post MD. I've flipped on my stance on whether JD and other TN whiskies could be called a bourbon more times than I care to count (and discussed here on SB more times than we all care to count ) Though my most recent understanding and belief has been that the LCP is entirely subtractive in nature (and thus keeping them within the guidelines of legally being a bourbon), after searching around numerous sources, I can't help but think that the process is also additive in some way. And if additive, and the addition comes from a wood product other than oak, then it seems arguable that any designs on calling themselves a bourbon (as if they ever would want to) could be effectively countered.

[GaryT]

Been thinking about this since your last post MD. I've flipped on my stance on whether JD and other TN whiskies could be called a bourbon more times than I care to count (and discussed here on SB more times than we all care to count ) Though my most recent understanding and belief has been that the LCP is entirely subtractive in nature (and thus keeping them within the guidelines of legally being a bourbon), after searching around numerous sources, I can't help but think that the process is also additive in some way. And if additive, and the addition comes from a wood product other than oak, then it seems arguable that any designs on calling themselves a bourbon (as if they ever would want to) could be effectively countered.

[TunnelTiger]

I love me some GD12 and the GD9yr is outstanding (don't care for JD which I guess is un-American) but I've never considered them bourbons.

To me bourbon comes from Kentucky and everything else is other American whiskeys.