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How do we tell what is NDP crap?


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Recently I saw a post from "393foureyedfox" which stated there was so much NDP crap on the shelves now that he was glad he knew the difference.

Well. I'm afraid I might not know the difference. ;-(

Where can I find info to tell me that so and so whiskey is really made by somebody else and bottled under a different name?

Any advice is appreciated.

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393foureyedfox

reading here and elsewhere online and some of the better bourbon history books will give you a lot of info. not all NDP stuff is crap, but the boom is bringing out more and more of it it seems. as with any purchase in life, do your research and make an informed decision. Ive bought my fair share of it, but in the end, Ive got no one but myself to blame when Ive done so. When youre new to it, the shelves can be confusing. Just try stuff. Learning is the price of admission, and just because its NOT an NDP doesnt mean its guaranteed quality either.

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Try it, you may like it. Just be price wary and search the forums here.

You have no way of knowing your likes and dislikes without sampling. It's part of growing in the hobby.

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Recently I saw a post from "393foureyedfox" which stated there was so much NDP crap on the shelves now that he was glad he knew the difference.

Well. I'm afraid I might not know the difference. ;-(

Where can I find info to tell me that so and so whiskey is really made by somebody else and bottled under a different name?

Any advice is appreciated.

As already stated, not all DP is great and not all NDP is crap...but here's a nice blog post titled "How Do You Know It's Sourced Whiskey?"

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2014/05/how-do-you-know-its-sourced-whiskey.html

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BigBoldBully

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ndp+crap

Seriously, I had an excellent independent bottling under the Kentucky XO label not that long ago. But if all NDP is presumed crap and you want to avoid it, (1) familiarize yourself with the labels used by the big distillers (there aren't all that many); (2) read the forums and consult other resources for promising craft operations; (3) read the above blog post; (4) if when in the store a bottle fits under none of these, google it--it's probably NDP or crappy craft, but this final step will broaden your knowledge even further.

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Guideline I give folks new to bourbon who ask me: assuming its a Straight, if its over $20, do your homework, if its under and you feel like rolling the dice on a 50/50 chance of enjoyment go for it.

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fishnbowljoe

Flip a coin. Seriously. Some of it may be good, and some of might not be. There's a lot of NDP stuff out there, and more coming out all the time. IMHO, no one can give you a good, honest opinion. It's all a crapshoot if you ask me.

A couple of suggestions. First: Use the search function here. NDP stuff has been discussed before in various threads. Second: You might have to be willing to just take a chance and possibly try some things for yourself. We can all glean certain things from the general gist of other members posts here, but the proof is in the actual tasting itself. I'm pretty sure your tastes are different than mine, and most other members here too. Opinions of others don't mean squat, mine included, when individual tastes come in to play. Especially if we haven't tried all that many NDP offerings, or none at all.

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MonsterMashBill

Well, another thing is, you're not generally going to find value with an NDP. With an NDP, you're going to have two parties making a profit -- the original distiller and the bottler. So while some NDP juice is good, it's a lot harder to find stuff that's high quality for the price you pay.

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kcgumbohead

peruse the Whiskey Tree thread at the to of the forum page that's a great place to start.

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If the NDP brand starts with 'Old' and ends with 'Scout'; it's probably pretty nice stuff.

Some of the Willett brands are nice, but consistency has faded back a bit in recent years.

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garbanzobean

NDPs aren't necessarily crap. Its just that a lot of NDP marketing is crap, and their batching can be extremely inconsistent. Given how great some of them are, I'd hate for the OP to automatically associate NDPs with crap.

And then there's Kentucky Owl. It's going to be a real hoot around here when they release a new batch of that.

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After a lot of experimenting for a lot of years with a lot of brands with some expensive (comparatively speaking) disappointments along the way, I finally figured out a different label doesn't mean a new or better taste experience.

So now I'm like the old farmer who refused to buy a jar of moonshine unless he knew the man who made it. If a producer won't tell me who distilled the whisky he's offering that ends the conversation.

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mark fleetwood

Be sure to have your smart phone with you. If there's a website located on the label, go to it. Look for an email address and query them. Be specific, ask aging, source of distillate, mashbill. I've done this a couple times. It's fun to watch people try to answer but not answer.

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TunnelTiger

Another thing to keep in mind is just because a major distiller offers a product doesn't mean it's not crap too. The list is to long for me personally to jot down.

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Thanks to everybody for their advice. I'll be perusing the whiskey tree for sure!

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As I posted on the Empty Bottle thread, I just finished an Ezra Brooks 90 proof only to find that the merchant now carries it as 80 proof. I wanted OE 101 in the first place but they were out so I settled for 90. Now the 90 seems to be 80. EB may have drifted into the "crap" range. Hoping the OE 101 comes back soon.

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As I posted on the Empty Bottle thread, I just finished an Ezra Brooks 90 proof only to find that the merchant now carries it as 80 proof. I wanted OE 101 in the first place but they were out so I settled for 90. Now the 90 seems to be 80. EB may have drifted into the "crap" range. Hoping the OE 101 comes back soon.

I haven't seen a bottle OE101 for probably over six months around here. One of the local places had it regularly for a good while. Now it's no longer showing up.

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We could buy the 101 last year for $13.20...this year $18.20

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393foureyedfox
We could buy the 101 last year for $13.20...this year $18.20

its been $18 here in KY since I started drinking bourbon a few years ago. it comes and it goes, but I dont think it'll hang around all that much longer.

last year, I bought 4 or 5 of 'em, thinking they were on their way out as I hadnt seen any in a while. But, when it really comes down to it, I prefer HHBIB over it at $10 anyway, so I stopped buying it. I still see it fairly regularly on shelves though.

I wouldnt put OE101 in the NDP crap category. Sure, its an NDP, but it is generally assumed to be 7 year 101 proof HH, and as such, it is a good, but not fantastic, bourbon. still, well worth $18 these days

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393foureyedfox
http://recenteats.blogspot.com/p/the-complete-list-of-american-whiskey.html

This might help. MGP is largest supplier for most NDPs.

MGPI makes good distillate. They wrongly get the bad wrap though when some NDP buys it, waters it down, ages it to the absolute minimum, slaps some hokey story on the label, and tries to charge a premium price for it. Grab a bottle of any Old Scout bourbon or rye at barrel proof and 7-8 years that is available right now, and you will likely agree.

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I wouldnt put OE101 in the NDP crap category. Sure, its an NDP, but it is generally assumed to be 7 year 101 proof HH, and as such, it is a good, but not fantastic, bourbon. still, well worth $18 these days

Nor would I call OE101 crap. But at 80 proof, EB might be pushing it.

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MGPI makes good distillate. They wrongly get the bad wrap though when some NDP buys it, waters it down, ages it to the absolute minimum, slaps some hokey story on the label, and tries to charge a premium price for it. Grab a bottle of any Old Scout bourbon or rye at barrel proof and 7-8 years that is available right now, and you will likely agree.

Amen!

[this portion of the post is being used to get me past the 16 character minimum ... sorry for any inconvenience this may cause] :grin:

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