How do we tell what is NDP crap?

[TunnelTiger]

That's what the whiskey blogs and these forums are for: word of mouth. If you can't find a review online for a particular NDP (Non-Distiller Producer) whiskey, then ask around; you might just get lucky and find someone who's tried it.

Other than a couple of blogs (Chuck's for instance) I trust comments/reviews from this forums members a whole lot more. Our members actually have to pay for our bourbon and we don't have to worry about pi**ing off a producer.

[squire]

I'll be glad to provide a free, unbiased review . . . just send me a bottle. Unopened of course, and I'll need a full 750 to be thorough.

[scubadoo97]

there are a lot of NDPs out there but remember KBD was a NDP and those Willetts are fine whiskey. Just depends on the source but so much of it is coming from MGP. They actually make some good whiskey as we know from Smooth Ambler. Maybe these NDPs should leave it alone and not fuck with it. Just make up the good bullshit story.

[squire]

Maybe these NDPs should leave it alone and not fuck with it. Just make up the good bullshit story.

That seems to be the business model for most of them.

[393foureyedfox]

That seems to be the business model for most of them.

except SA and WFE, who both offer their sourced stuff at barrel proof. Though Ive thoroughly enjoyed the SA BP bourbon and rye, I havent felt the slightest urge to buy one of the 99 or 100 proof offerings SA offers, since the BP I think is just right.

[garbanzobean]

except SA and WFE, who both offer their sourced stuff at barrel proof. Though Ive thoroughly enjoyed the SA BP bourbon and rye, I havent felt the slightest urge to buy one of the 99 or 100 proof offerings SA offers, since the BP I think is just right.

Yeah, I haven't bothered either. If I did, I would buy the 7 year over the 10, since it is younger and higher rye, thus more likely to be in my wheelhouse.

[ramblinman]

Yeah, I haven't bothered either. If I did, I would buy the 7 year over the 10, since it is younger and higher rye, thus more likely to be in my wheelhouse.

Veering off topic, but yeah, I think most everyone I know prefers the 7 year high rye. The low rye juice out of MGP leaves me wanting, but their higher rye and straight rye can stand toe to toe with any other distiller with similar age/proof.

[t44tq]

Veering off topic, but yeah, I think most everyone I know prefers the 7 year high rye. The low rye juice out of MGP leaves me wanting, but their higher rye and straight rye can stand toe to toe with any other distiller with similar age/proof.

I agree- the high rye mashbill MGP stuff is pretty tasty- the barrel proof 8 yr. offerings are quite good. I didn't like the 10 yr. at the 100 proof- too bland.

[CaskStrength77]

Good article on the subject of NDPs:

http://thewhiskeyjug.com/whiskey/whiskey-ndp/

Also, here's an older SB thread on the topic (also linked in that blog):

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?20137-Where-do-NDP-s-get-their-whiskey

[CaskStrength77]

Also, I agree with the sentiment that not all NDPs are "crap," not by a longshot.

[Balcones Winston]

I'm not sure if the original question was "how to tell what is NDP" or "how to tell what is crap" but the answer the former would be to look at the producer statement on the label. If it says "distilled by..." then it was truly made by that brand. If it says "produced by..." "bottled by..." "lovingly crafted by angels at..." etc... then it's sourced juice.

Whether or not it is "crap" is subjective.

[emr454]

But then you have brands like OGD which states "Distilled by Old Grand Dad Distillery Company" which is misleading because it is a Beam brand.

Of course, this is common knowledge to most of us. Newcomers to SB.com might not know this though.

[squire]

Whether or not it is "crap" is subjective.

Winston I certainly agree taste is subjective yet there's undeniably some crap out there as members here can attest.

[flahute]

Winston I certainly agree taste is subjective yet there's undeniably some crap out there as members here can attest.

Oh yeah there is.

I used to question the criticism of NDP's by repeating the well worn question of "if you like it (or, if it's good whiskey) do you really care where it came from?". I think this is a common way of thinking for newbies who don't have the breadth of knowledge and experience that old timers do. Though the whiskey may indeed taste just fine, what the old timers know is that you can likely get the same or very similar whiskey at half the price via one of the lower or mid shelf brands that newbies tend to overlook because they look cheap or unsophisticated. I remember squire repeating this often in different words, but I never really "got it" until I learned my own lessons and tried a bunch and made some expensive mistakes. All that said, what it really comes down to I've since learned is that the experienced whiskey drinker knows which distillers/mashbills/age ranges they prefer so the lack of transparency from the NDP provides no clues for the experienced whiskey drinker to decide if it's in the realm of their wheelhouse yet the asking price is almost always prohibitive.

[Harry in WashDC]

I kind of think Winston & Squire are both correct. The original question, now that we've poked at it a lot, seems to be something like, "How do we tell, without tasting, which NDP is likely to be crap and which likely is not?" There are some NDPs that most "educated" tasters think are terrible and a few most of us love. A smaller percentage of house brands seem to be similarly disparaged by that same group of "educated consumers" (and I'm not talking about licking Men's Wearhouse suits here; rather it's the "young" stuff that gets whacked).

In short, I don't think there's a nontasting way for each individual to be able to tell what NDP is crap, but I do know from (painful) experience that I can improve my odds (or reduce my risk) if I wait until some other SBers post tasting notes because some of you all have a palate similar to mine, and some don't.

And, yeah, I'm gullible enough on occasion that I probably will return the favor some times by reporting on a bad NDP (or even small maker) I walked home with. And, of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with cost-benefit analysis which could be an entirely other thread like, "What bourbon do you think is fairly priced, and which ones are over/under and why?" (ASIDE: Doesn't that read like a college entrance exam essay question?) And, it's rhetorical - no answers, please.

[TunnelTiger]

In short, I don't think there's a nontasting way for each individual to be able to tell what NDP is crap, but I do know from (painful) experience that I can improve my odds (or reduce my risk) if I wait until some other SBers post tasting notes because some of you all have a palate similar to mine, and some don't.

Aha! It took me about a year tasting and comparing against other members tasting notes to know what I would most likely enjoy based on their experiences.

[shoshani]

I can think of several well-loved whiskeys that started out as NDP products, their owners not distilling a drop for many years until they (or their successors) either started their own distilleries or bought them, sometimes buying the distillery that had provided the juice in the first place:

Cascade (now Dickel) (George Dickel didn't own the distillery from which Cascade was sourced, and died without ever owning a distillery)

Old Fitzgerald (Herbst had it produced under contract at the Old Taylor distillery until he acquired his Old Judge distillery)

Old Forester (Brown did not distill, and as late as 1917 OF was advertised as a blend of whiskies "bottled by us" [the label said bottled, not distilled])

W L Weller (Probably sourced from more than one plant, but eventually settled on Stitzel Bros, with which Weller later merged)

Wild Turkey (Had several sources, but the primary source was Ripy Bros, which Austin, Nichols bought and renamed Wild Turkey Distillery)

Can't think of any others off the top of my head, but I'm sure they exist. Whiskey is a big world, and being an NDP in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Golzee]

I like to try new bourbons. Sometimes, the NDP bourbon that catches my eye is good, and other times it isn't. But, if it is fairy priced, I don't really care that their backstory is probably without question horse****. That's just me. I don't really bunker bourbon (less than 10 bottles which will all be consumed in the near future). Drink what is available , you may be surprised by a bottle of NDP bourbon. Variety is the spice of life.

[dSculptor]

I don't even look at those new NDP's , I've tasted enough whisky's and I now know what I like. I'm sticking with what I know for now on. If I want to try something new I'll just whip me up a vat of something, that is of course if someone else is buying... then I 'd give it a try. Looking over my inventory I only have 2 NDP's --Jeffersons, and BMH, and probably will not buy either of them again, well maybe some Jefferson's, that's not too bad. Besides their prices most times rival the regulars.... JMHO