Alberta Rye Dark Batch from Beam Suntory

[BigBoldBully]

This was a new one on me. Just started showing up on shelves around $30. No age statement, and the marketing contains lots of "interesting" statements to say the least:

http://www.bevnet.com/news/spirits/2015/beam-suntory-launches-alberta-rye-dark-batch-whisky-in-the-u-s/

Any thoughts?

[Smithford]

It sounds like a re-branded Alberta Premium Dark Horse, which is just blended Canadian Whiskey with added sherry.

[portwood]

It sounds like a re-branded Alberta Premium Dark Horse, which is just blended Canadian Whiskey with added sherry.

[amg]

My understanding is that that's what it is:

http://www.beamsuntory.com/news/press-releases/alberta-rye-dark-batch-whisky-launches-in-the-us-market

Alberta Rye Dark Batch Whisky features a blend of 91% rye whisky, 8% bourbon and 1% sherry to add layers of complexity in each bottle.

[squire]

I think it's a good idea, blending makes much more sense to me than cask finishing.

[Gillman]

It sounds like a re-branded Alberta Premium Dark Horse, which is just blended Canadian Whiskey with added sherry.

Dark Horse is blended but with a high proportion of flavouring whiskey and tastes nothing like any traditional Canadian whisky.

Gary

[Gillman]

It sounds like the same whisky as Dark Horse. My understanding is the 91% rye whisky breaks down to two types, one a 6 year old straight whisky (distilled at low proof although whether aged in new charred wood is unknown, I think it is), and a 12 year old blended whisky from Alberta Springs, probably their regular Alberta Springs blend but aged 12 years instead of the 4-6 I'd guess the regular Alberta Springs gets. They can say both are "rye" because each is made from a 100% rye mash but the blended 12 year old component would have relatively little rye taste since most of it is likely grain whisky which has a fairly neutral taste at distillation. Obviously lots of likely's and probably's here but that's my guess based on all input collected to date.

If I'm wrong on any particular glad to be corrected. The Dark Horse blend is a particularly successful one and I doubt they would tinker with it for the U.S., it looks like a rebranding.

Gary

[CorvallisCracker]

Ooo it's 90 proof!

Checking the OLCC liquor search I see only one store in the state has it, up in Portland. Given the mileage my truck gets, driving up to get a bottle would more than double the price. Oh well.

[Gillman]

Ah, the vagaries of state stores Scott, a story too familiar to us in Canada. At least you are in the epicenter of one of the world's great hop growing areas and I assume numerous quality breweries connected therewith.

This story on Dark Horse is saying I believe what I did or essentially the same:

http://www.canadianwhisky.org/reviews/alberta-premium-dark-horse-45-alcvol.html

It seems almost a certainty the new bottle is a rebranding. I believe I could make a creditable version of Dark Horse. I'd use CC 12 years old, CC green label single rye whisky from is actually from Alberta Springs, Beam Black and a splash of Harvey's Cream Sherry or any Pedro Ximinez. It looks like 1% sherry, 8% bourbon and the rest, well, you'd have to guess proportions, maybe 75% the 12 year old stuff and 25% the single grain rye. You would get very close to Dark Horse, IMO.

Gary

Edited April 6, 2015 by Gillman

[Gillman]

We can drill down further due to this remark of Davin in reply to one of the comments:

"I am told that 51% of the whisky is at least 12 years old and 40% is at least 6 years old".

So, of the 91% that is neither bourbon nor sherry, 51% is 12 years old, 40% 6 years old, the rest presumably (here it isn't clear) is either single grain rye under 6 years old or more likely I think, regular Alberta Springs rye whisky (blended I mean) that is under 12 years old. It may not matter much which is used since it's only 8% or under 6% of the total bottle content. I'd take a crack at this but I don't have the components right now, if anyone does (Bruce?) and has the Dark Horse to compare, I'd be interested in your comments.

Gary

Edited April 6, 2015 by Gillman

[tanstaafl2]

We can drill down further due to this remark of Davin in reply to one of the comments:

"I am told that 51% of the whisky is at least 12 years old and 40% is at least 6 years old".

So, of the 91% that is neither bourbon nor sherry, 51% is 12 years old, 40% 6 years old, the rest presumably (here it isn't clear) is either single grain rye under 6 years old or more likely I think, regular Alberta Springs rye whisky (blended I mean) that is under 12 years old. It may not matter much which is used since it's only 8% or under 6% of the total bottle content. I'd take a crack at this but I don't have the components right now, if anyone does (Bruce?) and has the Dark Horse to compare, I'd be interested in your comments.

Gary

Haven't seen the Alberta Rye Dark Batch in town yet (not sure it is coming as we don't seem to get much of the Alberta Springs stuff as best I can tell) and don't keep much Canadian in the house so would have to track down CC 12 as well. But it could probably be done if the Dark Batch shows up!

[portwood]

More info / confirmation of what's already been discussed from Chuck Cowdery:

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.ca/2015/04/this-new-canadian-whisky-contains.html

[BigBoldBully]

The way Chuck writes about it makes a person want to try it, even if it is basically just younger Jeff10 (I think of it this way to compare $) and high still-proof Canadian mixed with OGD and a touch of sherry.

[squire]

Well, they could mix it with worse.

[sailor22]

So it's a mash up of Rye, Bourbon, Vodka and Sherry (what? no Rum?) at a reasonable price. Interesting and confusing all at once. Can only imagine the head scratching at TTB when they were trying to determine if the label conformed to regs.

[portwood]

So it's a mash up of Rye, Bourbon, Vodka and Sherry (what? no Rum?) at a reasonable price. Interesting and confusing all at once.

Best description of it I've read to date.

[Gillman]

The way Chuck writes about it makes a person want to try it, even if it is basically just younger Jeff10 (I think of it this way to compare $) and high still-proof Canadian mixed with OGD and a touch of sherry.

You can taste the 6 year old straight rye component: it is probably the CC single rye grain, or very similar.

Gary

[Gillman]

So it's a mash up of Rye, Bourbon, Vodka and Sherry (what? no Rum?) at a reasonable price. Interesting and confusing all at once. Can only imagine the head scratching at TTB when they were trying to determine if the label conformed to regs.

Well as Chuck said, it's really just a traditional Canadian whisky - high-proof aged base with some straight whiskey added and flavouring - except considerably more straight whisky has been added than has been the practice in recent decades. The only vodka is the high proof element in the 12 year old but of course since it is aged it is not vodka and also, something overlooked in these discussions is that this regular 12 year old Alberta Springs whisky may have a small straight element in it too, at least if they blended at birth. If they didn't, possibly it was all-base whisky I guess before the other additions, but anyway the high percentage of straights (rye, bourbon) gives it a completely different character to the regular run of Canadian whisky.

Gary

[amg]

I've seen this around for $30. I might have to give it a try.

[Gillman]

You won't be disappointed.

Gary

[smokinjoe]

I look forward to trying this. OGD has enough of a distinct flavor profile to make for an interesting impact, and I'm hoping it asserts itself in the blend, and does not get drowned out by the other whiskies and particularly the sherry. The whole concoction sounds interesting, and the price point sounds doable for me. Forgive me if I missed this, but can I assume that the OGD was blended in at barrel proof ?

As to the post above that this is just younger Jeff10, I wouldn't bet my life on it...no telling what is in the Jeff 10!

[TunnelTiger]

Ok, ok, y'all have finally got me really interested in this and odds are it will never make it to Ga.

[Gillman]

Well, I'm not sure you can really pick out the bourbon but I would say that a straight whiskey character - the bourbon and six year old pot still rye combined - is very prominent, and as I just explained in my new blending thread, if it's not strong enough, just add more. By adding Grandad you duplicate exactly the bourbon in there and it would take down a notch the waxiness of the pot still rye and the neutrality (relatively) of the 12 year old blended portion. Some sherry would be taken down too, but if you like just add more of any sweet sherry. The one I "improved" last night is really good, you guys would love it. But Dark Horse itself often is perfect, hopefully you'll get a really good one, they do vary somewhat as I said earlier, not that anyone in the general market would notice, but only some of us nuts here.

Finally, concoction is not really an apt word since this type of blending formula has been used for over 150 years. We used to talk about this here, or I did, all this approach is in old 1800's books, whether for blends combining straight and non-straight whiskeys or for vattings too (all-straights combined with or without a blending agent such as sherry).

American blended whisky is the same thing although it's almost never discussed here. But Dark Horse is miles ahead of the American commercial brands I've tasted.

Finally, as I said in a Scotch blending thread recently, sherry has a very unusual affinity with whisky. When I added bourbon and Lot 40 to my bottle of Dark Horse, while it deepened the straight character which I wanted, I felt it put the sherry note out of balance - there was too little in other words. When I added a dash of my Oloroso from the fridge (can't recall the brand now and it doesn't really matter) I was amazed how it re-shuffled the cards in the deck, it was like cinching the knot in your tie perfectly in the collar. Mixed metaphors for mixed whiskies...

Gray

Edited April 9, 2015 by Gillman

[tanstaafl2]

Already out of stock at the Party Source which can't seem to keep anything halfway interesting on the shelf anymore! Good for them I suppose but not so good for me.

And it is of course all about me! :cool:

[Darwin]

The article by Chuck Cowdery sure does make it sound worth a try. I will be watching for this one.